AI, Excel and the Changing Role of Financial Modelers with Danielle Stein Fairhurst

In this episode of Financial Modeler’s Corner, host Paul Barnhurst sits down with Danielle Stein Fairhurst to discuss how AI is changing financial modeling, why modelers need to keep learning, and how dynamic arrays are shaping the future of Excel. Danielle also shares her thoughts on model design, AFM exam preparation, and why strategic thinking still matters in an AI-driven world.

Danielle Stein Fairhurst is the Principal Financial Modeling Specialist at Plum Solutions, a Microsoft Excel MVP, Master Financial Modeler with the Financial Modeling Institute, LinkedIn Learning instructor, and internationally recognized financial modeling trainer and speaker. She is also the author of Financial Modeling in Excel For Dummies and Using Excel for Business and Financial Modelling.

Expect to Learn:

• How AI is changing financial modeling.

• Why modelers should not outsource all their thinking to AI.

• How dynamic arrays are changing Excel modeling.

• What it takes to prepare for the AFM exam.

• Why simplicity and strong model design still matter.

Here are a few relevant quotes from the episode:

• “AI is already building financial models, and that is quite terrifying to me.” - Danielle Stein Fairhurst

• “I think it’s important that we just sit down and think strategically about what we want, rather than outsourcing all of your creativity and all of your thinking to AI.” - Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Danielle explains that AI can now handle many technical tasks that once required significant modeling expertise. She believes modelers should embrace these tools while still relying on their own judgment, creativity, and strategic thinking.

Follow Danielle:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellesteinfairhurst

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Disclosure: Portions of this episode (such as the introduction or promotional segments) use AI-generated voice narration that has undergone human editorial review.

In Today's Episode:

[00:00] - Trailer
[05:19] - AI and the Future of Financial Modeling
[08:30] - Financial Modeling Pet Peeves
[10:21] - Updating Courses with AI
[15:34] - Lessons From Danielle’s Pilgrimage
[18:26] - AI Building Financial Models
[27:30] - Training vs. Real-World Modeling
[31:01] - Preparing for the AFM Exam
[35:35] - Dynamic Arrays in Financial Modeling
[40:24] - Lessons From Past Models
[44:47] - Rapid Fire: Excel & Modeling
[48:41] - Closing Thoughts

Full Show Transcript:

00:01:18.640 — 00:02:10.200 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Financial Modeler’s Corner is the world's premier modeling podcast. It is brought to you by Financial Modeling Institute, the world's leading financial modeling accreditation organization. Welcome to another episode of Financial Modelers Corner. I'm your host, Paul Barnhart, aka the FP&A Guy.

In this podcast, we talk all about the art and science of financial modeling with distinguished financial modelers from around the globe. The Financial Modelers Corner podcast is brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. FMI offers the most respected accreditations in financial modeling.

And that's why I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler. And our guest this week happens to be a master financial modeler. I'm thrilled to welcome on the show Danielle Stein. First. How are you doing, Danielle?

00:02:10.240 — 00:02:12.880 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

I'm very well. Nice to see you, Paul.

00:02:12.920 — 00:02:19.720 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah, it's been a while. It's good to see you. I know you've been up to a lot, so it's been. I think the last time you were on the show was the great debate.

00:02:19.760 — 00:02:21.880 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. Oh, wow. That was a while ago. Yeah.

00:02:21.920 — 00:02:34.160 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yes. I think with Lance, you and I think you and Lance had one of the questions, I think you and I got to discuss whether modelers was with the apostrophe s or s apostrophe for fun. Of course.

00:02:34.200 — 00:02:37.040 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Whether it's multiple modelers or one modeler.

00:02:37.280 — 00:02:39.240 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I know, I know, we have a little fun.

00:02:39.240 — 00:02:42.160 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

There and with two L's modelers is spelled with two L's, of course.

00:02:42.200 — 00:02:45.880 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yes. I don't remember who battled that one. I had to get someone from America and say.

00:02:45.920 — 00:02:46.920 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Well, that's just American.

00:02:46.960 — 00:03:12.640 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah, you're a battle, that one. So they could argue whether it's 1 or 2, but that was a fun event. So I think that was the last time we had you on the show. So excited to have you. Let me share a little bit about Danielle's background and then we'll jump right into our questions. So Danielle is a Sydney based financial modeling specialist with two L's and a corporate trainer.

She is a Microsoft Excel MVP, a master financial modeler from FMI. I think there's what, eight in the world now?

00:03:12.680 — 00:03:13.960 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, I like that.

00:03:14.000 — 00:03:45.000 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

She's a LinkedIn learning instructor and the author of Using Excel for Business and Financial Modeling and Financial Modeling, and Excel for dummies. She's a big advocate for women in finance. She founded the Women in Financial Modeling Meetup Group and runs other groups and forms, including a LinkedIn group with over 220,000 members.

She is also a member of the Financial Modeling Global Leadership Council. Love the background. I think there's all things modeling in there.

00:03:45.360 — 00:03:47.800 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yes, everywhere.

00:03:48.240 — 00:04:07.760 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Ever wish you could get career advice from the best financial modelers in the world? Well, now you can. That's why we created the career corner. Let's go ahead and see what today's guest has to say. So I'm curious when you are coming out of school, did you have any idea that financial modeling could be your career path?

00:04:07.800 — 00:04:16.000 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

I had never heard of it. Honestly, I did not know that modeling even existed. Absolutely not.

00:04:16.040 — 00:04:25.360 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Not surprised. I didn't know it was a career. I mean, yes, I knew that you built models from finance classes, but that was about it, so I'm not surprised to hear that.

00:04:25.400 — 00:04:43.680 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, I just studied finance and just kind of got into it that way and then discovered how wonderful Excel is. And then, you know, that mix of Excel and finance was like, well, obviously financial modeling and took it from there. So it's just an absolutely wonderful career.

00:04:43.680 — 00:04:49.560 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

So to kind of start with the love of Excel. And then you combine the finance and start doing modeling. Is that kind of how it happens?

00:04:49.600 — 00:05:00.240 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. Well having the finance background and I worked in investment banking in London and then just sort of started using Excel and was like, well, financial modeling is obviously the mix of the two.

00:05:00.280 — 00:05:02.760 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Did you start your career in London then? Is that where you.

00:05:02.800 — 00:05:12.520 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, well, I studied here, but then I traveled. Of course, as most young Australians do, ended up in London and worked in investment banking there for a lady.

00:05:12.520 — 00:05:14.280 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Get off outside the island for a while.

00:05:14.320 — 00:05:19.600 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. To another island? Yeah. I was there for about three years and just kind of started my career there.

00:05:19.640 — 00:05:27.320 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I'd love to get your thoughts. What would you say to young people? You know, people coming to college early in my career, they're worried that AI will make the financial modeling job obsolete.

00:05:27.360 — 00:06:19.730 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

That's a big question. Financial modeling job. I mean, with any jobs, I think if your job is to just copy and paste or to do what you're told, or to look that up and do this formula and you know, where you're not actually creating or or thinking through strategically, then yes, you should be worried. But, you know, I think the best thing that we can do is kind of stay up to date and see what's possible, what's available.

Keep experimenting and kind of know what's there, because I think there's still a lot of opportunity for financial modelers. In fact, I think there's more opportunities than there were before, because the boring part of your job is now being done by AI, you know, so we get to do all the other stuff. So yeah, I still think it's a big change, but I still think there's a lot of opportunities there.

00:06:19.730 — 00:07:12.050 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

And I agree with you. I definitely think there's opportunity. Someone else made a good point. As you know, people are going to eliminate investment banking and does anyone need a model. And someone said you got to remember there's a supply and demand side to this. It was Morton Feldman who runs a Wall Street prep.

And what he said is he goes, okay, so you can do the models twice as quick. So in theory, you need half as many people at the same time. He's like, there's a lot of people that are going to be building for a Ford modeling and Ford investment making that may not have before they can go down market. So he's like, you gotta remember, there's a supply and demand and a wall even out.

Yes, there may be some job loss. AI is going to take some in pretty much every profession that's business wise. But there'll be jobs created. And I thought it was a really good point because I think everybody worries about one side of it. And he's like, you gotta remember. It also drives down cost, which changes who can use certain products.

00:07:12.050 — 00:07:19.930 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

And modeling becomes more available. And so, you know, as an expert modeler you then become more in demand.

00:07:19.970 — 00:07:41.930 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah. And so I think that I'm with you that any job, if you're just following instructions and it's task oriented, you should be worried. You need to make sure you're adding strategic value. Yeah. So what advice would you give to someone. You know kind of maybe they're in finance. They're early in their career.

Like maybe I really want to be a financial model or any advice you'd offer them.

00:07:42.090 — 00:08:30.930 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Well, as I said, to to keep learning and to find out what's out there because it is changing so quickly. And the last thing you want to do is turn up at a job and, you know, talk about things that are out of date because somebody will always go, hey, there's a there's a new way to do that. Didn't you know? And so I think, you know, just keeping up with with what's happening and to keep learning, uh, and there's just so many fantastic resources that you can use to, to learn all about these different tools and techniques.

I think that's probably the best thing to do and to and of course, to learn how to use AI inside the processes of building a financial model. I think being across that is important.

00:08:30.970 — 00:08:53.970 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

No doubt you have to nowadays figure out how to use AI in your job. And if you're modeling, that's really how to use AI in Excel and you may use it outside as well. But Excel is going to be a big part of that. So I usually ask guests their horror story about modeling, but I've asked you that before, so I mixed it up here.

What's your biggest pet peeve that you see in financial models? The thing that drives you crazy.

00:08:54.010 — 00:09:50.930 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Okay. I think it's kind of the same as like at home, you know, in the house, when people don't pick up after themselves, they don't they don't tidy up after themselves. Drives me nuts. And in the same when you can see when someone's been using your model and they've saved it in the middle of the document, it's like you're out in the middle of nowhere in the in sheet number five.

Um, you know, just to kind of like, save it as you would want someone to look at it or they've put it on to some weird scenario that's never going to happen, you know? So when you're finished using a model, go control home. On each page, we call it a beauty save. Yeah. So control home, go to A1 and then go to the front page.

Reset everything back to the way you'd want to open it, so that when you open up the model next, you can see what the heck you're looking at. That drives me crazy.

00:09:50.970 — 00:10:13.210 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Funny enough, I had sent out a file and I usually try to do that. You know, make sure every sheet's up at the top. And the file I sent out for a class today, and I opened it up and it was like, on sheet five. And I was like, dope. Like, mad at myself. So I know what you're talking about because I try to make sure it's clean and you open to the front sheet.

And so I could understand that one. I want to guess you have a tidy home a bit.

00:10:13.250 — 00:10:16.210 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

No, no, no, don't look at my background here. It's a bit

00:10:17.370 — 00:10:19.650 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

below the camera. There's stuff everywhere.

00:10:21.490 — 00:10:43.290 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Ah, so you trick us. I like it, I do the same. See? It looks all clean. But if I showed you my desk, it would be a big mess. So. All right. It's been. Like I said, it's been a couple of years. We mentioned at the beginning since you've been on the show. So maybe talk a little bit about what you've been up to. Any big, any kind of, you know, big things that happened or just kind of in general how how it's been going and modeling for you?

00:10:43.490 — 00:11:42.730 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. Just busy, I think I think when the first time I was on the show, we were talking about my books, which was a long time ago, so no changes there. So those books are still out there, but I've, I think since then I've recorded a few LinkedIn learning courses, which has been great. Yeah, I've made experience.

Yeah, yeah. Love that. And at the moment I'm actually just revamping my own online courses, which I've had for a long time. Some of the they were all recorded in a studio and the studio parts are fantastic, except of course, my, my hair's I've got like a micro fringe and I look, I look a little bit different, but but what I've said is still really relevant.

And so what I've had to do is go through and edit them and just kind of replace the screen share. Because the, the version of Excel is, you know, a previous version. So I'm just updating it to make sure it's all kind of with the, the latest tools. So that's what's been keeping me busy lately.

00:11:42.770 — 00:11:53.610 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah. It's amazing how much time it can take to rerecord and redo courses. I have a few that are old and I'm like, I know I need to redo them and I just like, where do I find the time sometimes? Is the challenge?

00:11:53.610 — 00:12:12.690 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Well, I've kind of yeah, this this month I've just really sat down and made myself do it. And AI is really helpful for that because being able to it's amazing. You know, you run, you know, put it into into the recorder and you can actually add it so much more easily than it used to be, a really time consuming process.

And it's a lot easier than it used to be.

00:12:12.690 — 00:12:18.970 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

100% I love I have a, I use Camtasia in their software audio, where I just open it up and edit the transcript and it edits.

00:12:19.010 — 00:12:19.330 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah.

00:12:19.650 — 00:12:47.570 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Like that. So a lot of a lot of the tools have that now. They're great aren't they. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. So I remember the first time I used it the transcripts were terrible. And now they're really good. Like you know they're 99% accurate. There's words they get wrong. Especially the unique finance words like it almost never gets f p and a right.

But that doesn't surprise me you know. But that's just a click and change all of them at once. Maybe twice because it spelled them slightly different or whatever.

00:12:47.650 — 00:13:00.650 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. So I'm just, um, running it through the, like the, like, a lot of the auto subtitles are really off, and I've just found if I run that again, just do it again. It just improves it a lot.

00:13:00.690 — 00:13:12.730 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

It's funny. You know, you mentioned AI and I've had a lot of people say just almost on any complex task, ask it to check itself 2 or 3 times, and by that third time it's usually quite good.

00:13:12.810 — 00:13:56.410 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. It was one the other day I was doing with them with because a lot of it is with instructions, and with the newer version of the model, I had inserted a couple of rows and of course all the instructions were out. And so I just asked AI to, uh, you know, to check it. And I was like, okay, great. And, you know, that's all good.

And then I said, how about we just, you know, run it again? And it found all these errors the second time it's like, what happened? Like, why didn't you not why did you not pick that? Oh, I missed them the first time. So we ran it. Had to run it through like 3 or 4 times to actually find all of the places where the instructions and the Excel file were not matching.

And a lot of it's like that having to ask it multiple times before it gets it right.

00:13:56.450 — 00:14:23.969 · Host: Paul Barnhurst

When the model goes to the board, it's your name that is on it. The advanced financial modeler is how you prove the work holds up. I took the exam. It sharpened my modeling skills and taught me how to be a better financial modeler. I invite you to join me and start the journey to becoming an AFM. Today go to FM Institute podcast that is FM Institute. And use code podcast for 15% off. 

00:14:37.530 — 00:14:41.610 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I'll do. You know certain things. If you run it with one and then you bounce it off the other.

00:14:41.650 — 00:14:42.330 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah.

00:14:42.610 — 00:14:46.970 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah. Ask Claude something and then ask you to check Claude's work.

00:14:48.050 — 00:15:30.690 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Oh, yeah. It's a weird world we live in sometimes. This is the first session where I've been doing this training for, you know, 3 or 4 years. And we have an exercise we do in day one, and immediately they turn to AI for it. And we've been waiting because we kind of encourage them afterwards. We show AI. See how long we take.

I kept telling my staff, it's only a matter of time until they use AI to do the exercise. This class, they used it for everything, and what it's allowed us to do is focus on what we really want them to learn, instead of them rushing because it's shorten the time of the exercise when they need to focus on presentation or or different things.

You know, it's it's really in many ways enhance the learning because they're doing it to learn. They're not just doing it to do the exercise, if that makes sense.

00:15:30.730 — 00:15:32.050 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:32.410 — 00:15:34.370 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

So and interesting to watch.

00:15:34.410 — 00:15:34.930 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah.

00:15:34.970 — 00:15:48.780 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

All right. So rerecording all the courses um, and also let's see I know one thing. This isn't modeling, but I want to ask about this. You recently did a pilgrimage in Europe. Talk a little bit about that journey. I think it was about 500 miles. You were saying? So our audience about that.

00:15:48.820 — 00:17:05.980 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

It was amazing. Absolutely amazing. Uh, just 34 days, walking about 20 to 25km. Sorry. I don't know what that is in miles, but a lot like basically walking, you know, half the day. Uh, it was, um. Yeah, it was absolutely incredible. I loved it. Everyone says it's a life changing experience. And I was like, well, I hope not, because I kind of like my life.

I like the way things are and coming back. You know, I mean, of course, everything's kind of gone back to the way it was, but it was just wonderful to take that amount of time out and, uh, yeah. And just really, really reflect. And I bought this tiny, tiny, tiny little laptop to take with me because, you know, you really, really like like you don't take, like you wear the same clothes every single day, which is very freeing.

and to take the laptop with me because I just felt really insecure without having it with me. You know what? If somebody needs a model. You know what if I need to? Um, and I did actually have a fairly complex proposal to write at one point. Um, but other than that, I didn't use the laptop as much as I thought I would.

Uh, but it was it was kind of like a security, like having having that laptop with me the entire time.

00:17:05.980 — 00:17:16.620 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

What was maybe kind of the key takeaway from the the whole pilgrimage, like, what was you kind of finished it like is you reflect on it. What was your kind of maybe take away from it?

00:17:16.660 — 00:17:54.820 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

I don't know, I just loved it. I just I guess you you know yourself quite well. Uh, and I know that I love traveling and I love sort of being out of my comfort zone, which definitely was. Uh. Yeah. I lost a few toenails for sure. And, uh, yeah, it was pain. Like, it was just. Yeah, quite. Um, it was a very freeing experience, I think.

Um, yeah. I don't know any other sort of takeaways. And then you sort of come back and things are as they were. But I realize, you know, how much I love what I do. And, uh, and that's and that's great. You know, nothing nothing really changed from it.

00:17:54.900 — 00:18:04.060 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah. Like you said, you weren't freeing, as you called it. You recognize how much you like what you do. You like challenging yourself. Any other kind of big events that you. Any other challenges coming up?

00:18:04.140 — 00:18:19.460 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Uh, I know I feel a bit like a wanna organize something because I, we look forward to that for such a long time. Uh, and, yeah, I don't know, maybe go to, uh, got a few trips coming up, so. Yeah. Yeah. Looking forward to a few things.

00:18:19.460 — 00:18:23.620 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I'm glad it was, you know, such a rewarding experience. That's what you always hope.

00:18:23.660 — 00:18:25.820 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. Yeah, it certainly was. Mhm.

00:18:26.060 — 00:18:43.820 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

All right. So kind of back to modeling obviously I think everybody whether it's modeling anywhere in business we've talked already about it a little bit AI right. It's just it's it's the word of the year. It feels like the word of the decade you hear about every day. So how are you thinking about AI and financial modeling?

What's kind of your take? Where are you at?

00:18:43.860 — 00:19:00.300 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Well, I was hoping that you wouldn't remember, but when we did the great the bait that you reminded me about earlier, one of the questions was, can AI ever build a financial model? And I said, no, absolutely not.

00:19:01.180 — 00:19:05.060 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Of course, I think it was you and Lance Rubin. If I remember right, he was on the opposite side.

00:19:05.100 — 00:19:07.220 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

How long ago was that? It was not that long.

00:19:07.220 — 00:19:09.540 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

And, sorry, 18 months maybe.

00:19:09.900 — 00:20:02.420 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. Completely wrong. I mean, it is happening. AI is already building financial models and that is that is quite terrifying to me because as a modeler who I've always kind of prided myself on my technical prowess, you know, that I'm, I'm really good at the at the modeling and to, to now know that AI can just do it like that is quite discombobulating.

So it's, um, it's taken a bit of, um, you know, I really had to to lean in and and and embrace it and make sure that I'm using it because it would be very easy to just go. La la la la la. Don't want to hear about it. It's not happening. Uh, but it is happening. And we have to come to grips with it and figure out how are we going to use it, because we have to use it.

00:20:03.020 — 00:20:42.300 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah, it's pretty crazy how quickly developed this year it really went. I think it was opus 4.7 came out. We took a giant leap forward around December. January. Late, late, very late last year, beginning of this year. And ever since then, it's it's been a different world. That was I still remember in Schnorr when we did our episode where we tested for eight.

He's like, everything's changed now and ends. Not one for hyperbole. Very, very level set. Very. And he was you could tell he was shocked, like, wow, this is actually good. It still has its issues, but it's not like before where you're just looking at it going, why would anyone use this?

00:20:42.340 — 00:20:55.100 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, I really love that series because it, you know, it just really it was kind of in real time as things were progressing to see how we can build a financial model using AI.

00:20:55.300 — 00:21:16.020 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

And it was, you know, it's amazing to me to just think back to the first episode to where we are. It just sometimes things move so fast. It just blows my mind at times. Like, how did we go from there to there and exciting. But yeah, that was a really fun series because I think we picked just the right time to really start, get in and go and see that change.

00:21:16.060 — 00:21:21.140 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. As you started, I don't think you realized just how much you were going to achieve.

00:21:21.180 — 00:22:07.340 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

And I think we all admitted that like six months, you know, 6 or 8 months later, like, did we think we'd be here? And we were all like, no, like our opinions change from day one to now. You know, we still try to do once a month in episode and or we're now we're the things we're testing is more how far can we push it?

Not can it balance a balance sheet every time, or can it get it in the right row, which was early on some of the challenges. So I mean, what do you think you mentioned, you know, really proud of technical prowess. And I think all of us, you know, a lot of modelers are I think that's a hard part, not just for you.

I think many modelers struggle with that. But how how are you thinking about AI now? Are you using as some in your modeling? How do you think about it? And teaching kind of give more your thoughts on where it where it fits in what you're doing?

00:22:07.340 — 00:22:39.740 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, I just use it wherever I can as just take as with any kind of learning to take every opportunity to use it where possible. And it's very easy to kind of get, get set in your ways and go, yep, this is the way I've always done it. And, you know, just keep doing it the way I've always done it. But it's, you know, stop and think, is there now an easier way of doing this, or is there a different way of doing it?

And that is where you really learn is to try it a different way.

00:22:40.420 — 00:22:44.740 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

What's the biggest thing you've learned so far when it comes to Excel modeling and AI?

00:22:45.060 — 00:24:11.420 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, I guess just how much it can do. Um, yeah, it's, uh, it's quite. And every day, every day I'm learning new things all the time, like, yeah, just amazing. And then sometimes it'll do something and you're like, this should be easy. Why can't why can't you do it? And it just creates this absolute rubbish.

Uh, and. Yeah. And then sometimes you get it, it does stuff so quickly and you just can't believe it. So, um, I think, yeah, I think the thing that's interesting is not only is it faster, I mean, yes, we're saving time, but we go deeper, you know, that's that's something that's surprised me is I've kind of realized that that.

Yes, yes, yes, I can do all everything that I did before. Quicker. Um, well, once you get the hang of it. Like, it always takes me a bit longer with experimenting, but once, once you kind of get the hang of it. Yes, it's quicker, but you can actually get more than what you did before. So the the analysis, the insights, all of that is, is further and more detail and just learning.

And you have to it's a very personal thing. And just experimenting with it and working out how, um, you know, how your relationship with it and how you can get the best out of it. Um, working together as a copilot, of course.

00:24:12.740 — 00:24:14.300 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Nice Microsoft plug. Well done.

00:24:14.340 — 00:24:20.140 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Throw that in there. And that's how it should be, is that you're kind of working together to get the best out of both of you.

00:24:20.140 — 00:24:41.340 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I love how you said the best out of both. And there is that trial and error. I mean, the first time you do it, it may take a lot longer, but as you start to figure it out, there's definitely areas it can help quite a bit and I'd love to know. Is there an area where you're using AI doesn't have to be modeling or Excel, but just where you couldn't go back where you're like, oh my goodness, I used to have to do this manually.

00:24:42.220 — 00:25:39.270 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, actually a lot of the admin tasks in my business now I use AI like I just wouldn't, um, I would find it difficult to not have that anymore. Uh, it does give me though, sometimes when, like when I think, ah, I've got to like, do something or I've got to think about something or I've got to write something and I, the first thing I do is turn to AI and I think, hang on a minute, just hang on a minute.

Just think it through. Use your head for a second and think through what you want from this process before you immediately turn to AI, or start opening Excel, or start jumping into the tools. I think it's important that we just sit down and think strategically about what we want, rather than outsourcing all of your creativity and all of your thinking to AI.

00:25:39.550 — 00:25:58.710 · Host: Paul Barnhurst

There is a difference between editing a template and building a model from scratch. The Advanced Financial Modeler tests whether you can actually build a model from scratch. What are you waiting for? Get started on your AFM journey today. Go to FM Institute.

00:26:01.550 — 00:26:03.710 · Host: Paul Barnhurst

That is FM Institute.

00:26:06.550 — 00:26:11.190 · Host: Paul Barnhurst

And use code podcast for 15% off.

00:26:11.230 — 00:26:36.550 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

100%. I think that's a huge challenge everybody's struggling with. There are times when you're like, am I just delegating everything to AI? Like, almost like, am I becoming stupider in a sense that, you know, because I'm just letting AI be my brain. So sometimes like, no, no, just stop and think through a few.

You can use AI to help you, but at least get yourself started and get your brain working versus AI, AI, AI because it's so easy.

00:26:36.590 — 00:26:42.670 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yes, exactly. And I do I do think it's making us dumber. I do feel like we are not using our brains as much.

00:26:42.710 — 00:26:50.950 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I agree, I you know, I've said that in the long run. AI will make society dumber as a whole. I hate to say that, but I think it's true.

00:26:51.990 — 00:26:54.030 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

You know, I'd like to think it's not.

00:26:54.150 — 00:26:54.590 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Mhm.

00:26:54.830 — 00:26:57.630 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

But we'll see. Time will tell. All right.

00:26:57.630 — 00:26:59.590 · Speaker 5

So you know you do.

00:26:59.670 — 00:27:30.550 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

You do a lot of training. You also help people build models. You have your paying clients. You have your training. Are there any areas where you know when you're training people to build models versus paying clients that you see kind of a, you know, kind of that disagreement or different identities where, hey, this technique you use on your client work, but you would never teach in a course, you know, those type of things.

Or sometimes, like, here's the best practice, you teach all this in a course and then you go to a client and you're like, oh, wow. That's not best practice.

00:27:30.590 — 00:27:34.910 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And I think you probably have that problem as well. So yeah.

00:27:34.950 — 00:27:35.550 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Definitely.

00:27:35.630 — 00:28:37.790 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Like when I first started the business, I thought, oh I'm going to do like do consulting. And then if I do training like it'll be the same people. But generally it's not like the people who want to be trained and the people who are like, can you just build me a model? Are completely different types of people, and very rarely do you get the same people, although there is the odd, um, training client who'll be like, oh, can you just build it for me?

Like, whereas I generally kind of go, here's how you do it. And, you know, I'll kind of build it along with them so that they can it's their model and they can take it over. Uh, but often they're just like, I don't care, could you just do it for me? That's and that does happen often. But as you mentioned. Yes, definitely.

So when you're in a training course, you have all these sort of training, uh, examples and they're all sort of sanitized and they work perfectly each time and they showcase whatever technique that I want to show them. And, you know, it's not messy. It's not real world. I mean, it's a little bit messy, but it's it's kind of like I kind of am in control.

And I know.

00:28:38.110 — 00:28:39.310 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

You control the environment.

00:28:39.310 — 00:29:19.950 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. Of course. Whereas when you're in the real world, you end up, you know, you just got to get the job done and you don't want to sort of be really pedantic about having everything best practice because, you know, it's not always practical. Sometimes, you know, when training, I say, you know, formula should be no longer than your thumb.

It should, you know, try to keep your formula as short as possible, and you get into, um, into a client model and you've built a lambda or something that's that's huge and terribly complicated. And, um, it's important then, depending on who the client is. But generally I try to sort of make sure they understand the technique and why I've done it.

00:29:19.950 — 00:29:49.670 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I think the the formula rule is probably one of the big ones. There's a few others, you know, just the complexity, right? You always tell. Always keep it simple. Make it, you know, really straightforward. But the real world rarely is. One of the best advice I heard was from a guest. He goes make when working with clients, he goes, make the model as simple as possible because your client or your, you know, your manager, whoever, you're building a Ford, they will complicate it for you.

So if you start out making a complex, you're going to end up with a monster.

00:29:49.710 — 00:30:12.830 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Exactly. And I mean, AI is getting better, but it used to like the solutions that would come up with are just this long, and you think it doesn't need to be that complex. So part of the prompt, I always say, you know, make it as simple as possible, as short as possible. Just get straight to the solution. You know, don't don't sort of add all of this extra stuff in there.

00:30:12.990 — 00:30:20.790 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah. Kind of overengineered over builds. I had one where it used a let formula to reference a sell on another sheet.

00:30:20.790 — 00:30:21.910 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Oh wow. Okay.

00:30:21.950 — 00:30:29.790 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

It took me a while to figure out what it was doing, and I realized it was just referencing like C7 on sheet one. In G2, they used the LEP formula to do that.

00:30:29.830 — 00:30:30.950 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Okay, well.

00:30:31.070 — 00:31:00.990 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

That was probably the worst. I saw where I was like, " How? What made it think that was a good idea? Like it just kind of, you know, couldn't understand what was going on. So I know exactly what you're talking about. We definitely saw that a lot in the Mod Squad that we talked about earlier. All right. So I want to talk for a minute.

You know, in your training, one of the things you do is help prepare people for the AFM. For the CFM, you help prepare them for the AFM. We don't just AFM; we don't do CFM, AFM. Right. So any advice you'd offer to people who are preparing for the test?

00:31:01.030 — 00:32:16.950 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, yeah. So we do coaching like we like I have a prerecorded prep course, but then we also do coaching as they kind of get closer to the exam, as well as the mock exams that help them get ready because it's just practice really, you know, just practice and practice and practice. We do drills like over like it's about speed and about having things happen as quickly as possible.

So it's just certainly with the A of M, the CFM is different because you've got lots of different, uh, different types of models that you are not as you can't be as well prepared. But with the AFM, it's exactly the same, uh, uh, structure. The inputs are different, but the situation: you always have to build a three-way model.

You always have a debt schedule; you always have a revolver. You know everything. There are very few unknowns in that situation. And so it's just practice, practice, practice and getting your sort of muscle memory with the keyboard so that you can do it as quickly as possible. I think that probably the best advice is to practice because it's such a practical exam.

It's one of the only modeling exams that is just so practical. So you know that if someone's got the AFM, they can actually build a model in the time 100%.

00:32:16.990 — 00:32:58.310 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

It's it's one of those few tests that, like I said, very practical, very much. You're doing the job versus. Is it a is it B is it C, is it. You know you're trying to figure out an answer and it's, it's speed. If you put in the time, there's no reason you shouldn't pass the AFM. What do I tell people if you if you build enough of the models you practice, you know your shortcuts.

You know your statements well and how to build a schedule. Nothing should surprise you. May you get a little bit of a curveball with some kind of capacity thing or whatever. Sure, there'll be a little bit of a curveball, but you have plenty of time if you practiced to figure it out.

00:32:58.350 — 00:34:03.230 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, well, you have to finish it. You need to be able to finish it within 3.5 hours so that you've got that extra half an hour just in case something goes wrong and you know, if you're ready, like if you, you, if you can, you can either do it or you can't. So you do it on a, you know, you do them. We do the mock exam two weeks prior to the date.

And you know, and the, the the pass rate is really high because you know that you're not going to hit it unless you you know that you're ready. Yeah. And I was going to say that you, uh, you also don't want to go into it at a less prepared like you want to be. You want to get the most out of the experience. So if you're kind of flying by the seat of your pants, am I going to pass, am I not?

It's kind of defeats the purpose. So you're better to sort of go in knowing and and to take your time preparing as well. You have up to a year from when you sign up that you've got to actually take it. And, and it's good to take at least, at least a couple of months to really like, make sure that it's that it's in there.

Because if you just prepare for something very quickly and then set the exam very quickly, it doesn't it doesn't always stick.

00:34:03.350 — 00:34:26.389 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

No. Totally agree. I wish I had spent more time studying, but I remember when you mentioned giving yourself time. I got done with the basic model, my balance sheet didn't balance and I spent like 2 or 3 minutes trying to figure out why. I'm like, forget it for right now. Get everything else done, make the executive summary and the scenarios, make those all match and then come back to you if you have time left over.

Because I don't want to spend all the time, never find it. And the things in disarray exactly failed.

00:34:26.429 — 00:34:39.110 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Because if you can't pass it with a half-finished model, there's no way you can pass. But if everything is perfect and you made the tiniest little mistake and so your balance sheet isn't 100%, maybe you'll get through.

00:34:39.190 — 00:35:07.550 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah, and that's what I didn't say. He goes, " We'll pass some people if everything else is good. And it's a simple mistake, you know. And then I had about 15, 20 minutes left or maybe half an hour when I got all done and I started going through it and I just put a, I think I had a negative in the wrong place or a parenthesis in the wrong place.

It was just something simple where I'd messed up a formula and I just wasn't catching it when I first looked. Trying to be quick because you're all nervous and yeah, like giving yourself that time is huge in case something like that happens because it's easy to do in an exam.

00:35:07.590 — 00:35:09.350 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. And so you found it just.

00:35:09.550 — 00:35:25.080 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Just did I found it was about ten minutes left. And I'm like okay I feel good. If I don't pass I'll be shocked. Yeah. Before that I was like, if I get a fail like this? And I was running Financial Modelers Corner at the time, so that would have been fun to come on the show and tell everybody I failed my AFM. Let me talk about modeling now.

00:35:25.280 — 00:35:35.720 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. It's um, I was quite and I think I think, you know, you know, that you've passed like you kind of you've either done it or you haven't basically when you come out of it.

00:35:35.760 — 00:35:45.800 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

All right. So dynamic arrays- where are you at with dynamic arrays in financial modeling a lot of different opinions out there. I know you've shared some things on LinkedIn. So it's just like your thoughts in general.

00:35:45.800 — 00:37:50.960 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

I love dynamic arrays, and I really think that they are made for modeling. You know, like the whole point of modeling or one of the principles of best practice in financial modeling, is to have consistency of formulas is basically, less that can go wrong if you have a consistent block of formulas.

And that's essentially what a dynamic array does. You have the formula is in the corner, and everything just spills across and down. And so there's very little risk. But then there is there are other risks that are involved with dynamic arrays. And that's that's the thing that's hard. And so I struggle with the idea of having a model that is completely 100% dynamic because, you know, things like the corkscrew are a lot more, you know, with the with I'm talking about the debt schedule, for example, where you've got an opening and a closing and an opening and a closing, and that can be quite, quite difficult to do with a dynamic array.

But I mean, it's, you know, once you're used to it, it's not that hard. But that was actually my latest LinkedIn learning course was actually building one from scratch, like a full, uh, model using dynamic arrays. But again, it's one of those, uh, learning sanitized examples. It's not a real model, because I don't think I have been able to build a real model in the wild that is not that is fully dynamic, because there's always going to be the odd thing that just is much harder to do and make it dynamic.

Like, you may end up making it like a really long and complicated formula just for the purpose of being dynamic. And sometimes that's not always practical. So I do struggle with it, and I do try to make them dynamic wherever possible, because I really feel also like that's the future of Excel. Like pretty much every new function that Microsoft has brought out is dynamic.

Like you have to you have to be using dynamic arrays in order to use the function. So it's kind of the future of Excel is dynamic arrays.

00:37:51.200 — 00:38:32.000 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

For a guy here. One of the certifications I'm most proud of is the Advanced Financial Modeler, the AFM from FMI Institute. Why am I so proud of it? Because it taught me how to be a better modeler. I didn't just take a test, I had to demonstrate that I could build a fully integrated three-statement model. A skill that is invaluable for financial modelers.

It's one of the certifications I'm most proud of, and I encourage you to earn it as well. So go ahead and join me. Get started on your journey to becoming an AFM charter holder. Go to FM Institute.

00:38:34.720 — 00:39:22.960 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

And use Code Podcast for 15% off. Yeah. I mean, if you look over, since the engine came out of the 5060 functions they've added since what, 2020 or whenever it was 19 dynamic or it came out, 90% of them are dynamic functions. There's the occasional one that comes out that's not, but it's usually solving a very specific problem.

Mhm. So I, I'm totally with you, I think it's where we're heading. And so do you think we'll hit that point where most models are built dynamically. Kind of. Where's your thoughts on that? Because there's still some real challenges. Just like you mentioned, the debt, corkscrew and circular references and things that require complex lambdas or stuff that the average user just doesn't want to have to deal with, doesn't mean they can't learn it.

They just don't want to deal with that level of complexity.

00:39:23.000 — 00:39:47.320 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Exactly, exactly. And I'm not sure that it's really necessary for the average user to be fully dynamic. You know, I think people are just trying to get the job. Well, whatever gets the job done the fastest. And sometimes that's a dynamic array and sometimes it's not. So I mean, I think we're moving towards that.

There are a few things that I think need to happen, like the formatting, for example. You know, the fact that when you spell.

00:39:47.400 — 00:39:48.480 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Microsoft.

00:39:48.560 — 00:40:04.600 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the spill the formula down and the formatting doesn't come with it. So because of course when you're copying and pasting, you're copying the formatting. But when you spill, the formatting doesn't happen. So something there like that's always quite, quite annoying having to fiddle about with the formatting 100%.

00:40:04.600 — 00:40:22.360 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

You'll laugh at this, Marc Proctor told him. He goes, well, can't you just, you know, make it so it spills with it? And the engineer is like, do you know how complex that was? Said something like that to him. And Mark's like, that's not my problem. You guys got to figure that out. Like, I don't care how complex it is, I'd love to have it.

I think it was Mark. It might have been someone else, but it was one of the MVPs. I think it was Mark who said that. I kind of.

00:40:22.840 — 00:40:24.000 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Sounds like Mark. Yeah.

00:40:24.160 — 00:40:39.240 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah, it doesn't sound like something he might say. All right, so this is a fun question I wanted to ask you. If you were to go back and audit every model you've built over your career, is there a theme story, something that would tell you, do you think it happened?

00:40:39.240 — 00:41:10.920 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Sometimes people bring or say, " Send me models that are years old and oh my gosh, I think, oh my goodness, I can't believe you're still using that model. And there's, you know, there's a much easier way of doing that now. So yeah, yeah, yeah. I think like all of my models, I think anyone who's kind of seen me on LinkedIn, like I often post a lot of models and I have like a very specific formatting that I use.

Like, I think, you know, that I'm a little I'm a little bit of a pedant. Yeah, so I like things to be.

00:41:11.040 — 00:41:12.560 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I wasn't going to say it. Yeah. Yeah.

00:41:12.600 — 00:41:37.600 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

We. You know that. You know. Uh, and so having, um, the formatting, like, looking nice I think is, um, is important. And so a lot of the time, I probably spend too much time with clients. Like making sure that the colors match the logo of the client, for example. You know, stuff like that. Making it look, because people do actually trust your numbers more.

If you use formatting, make it look professional.

00:41:37.640 — 00:41:47.720 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

So I 100% if I open a model and it looks really clean and professional, you automatically have a higher level of trust than you open it, even if it's completely right. It looks messy.

00:41:48.000 — 00:41:50.720 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Exactly, exactly. So yeah.

00:41:50.760 — 00:41:51.560 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I'm totally with.

00:41:51.560 — 00:42:05.960 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

You. I mean, AI, now we have that kind of layer of polish that it makes like it looks good. And so you kind of have that inherent trust of it and you realize it's complete garbage. So that's, that's that's kind of that's kind of scary.

00:42:06.000 — 00:42:39.200 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

100% agree I think we're and we're on in one of the worst spots in the sense of if it's total garbage, it makes it easier. It's when it's 95, 97, 98%. Right. And you start getting lax because it's mostly right. And so you get lazy in your checking. And so people are going to get bit. I have no doubt there's going to be a big just like there's always been with Excel.

And everybody will blame the tool or you'll blame AI, but there'll be some big, you know, 100 million or billion dollar loss due to something being done by AI and somebody's not checking it. We all know what's coming.

00:42:40.000 — 00:42:41.040 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Absolutely.

00:42:41.080 — 00:42:44.720 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah, it's probably out there and they just some haven't wanted to share it yet.

No no no no.

00:42:46.960 — 00:42:52.960 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Um, so instead of asking me a favorite shortcut since I've done that on the show before, your favorite dynamic array function.

00:42:53.240 — 00:43:26.560 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Ah, yeah. Yeah, probably the, um, the one that my absolute go to is a sequence. You know, we just it's such a, such a a useful, useful function. We just particularly with timing and dates and things like that. In modeling, you know, you're always having to look at timelines and the sequence function does that really well.

Um, the unique uh, is also super useful. Um, yeah. Just loads of those, those really, really simple functions that can, uh, just that you can use in your model, uh, especially the sequence. Love that one.

00:43:26.600 — 00:43:34.480 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

So I have to ask about Sequence when it first came out. Did you look at it and go, well, what's really the purpose of this? Because I did like where would I use that? Were you the same way?

00:43:34.680 — 00:43:35.040 · Speaker 5

Yeah.

00:43:35.080 — 00:44:03.440 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Uh, I just thought, oh, that's handy. Like, I can use it for lists like one, two, three, four, five. You know, I. Oh, yeah. You know, and it took a while before I was like, wow. Like, this is actually really useful. I can use it in modeling. And I was, um, competing in the Financial Modeling World Cup at the time when it first came out and I was like, oh, I can do like, you know, 12 months across, um, you know, for 50 years and just do that very, very quickly.

Um, and, you know, it's just a really fast way of adding some timelines.

00:44:03.560 — 00:44:37.160 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Well, I love how simple it is for like a sensitivity analysis. I just create lists and, you know, drop downs and get your price and cogs. You can go, oh, I want to look at price across 15 different scenarios or ten of the of the costs. And instead of dragging anything it's just it's so simple. And when you show people I can do it in training and like it's basically one function and a formula, now the function changes.

You got to learn SEQUENCE, and then you're building your formula in the middle. And people are just amazed like is it really that easy. And so that's one of the things I love. One of my favorites to use sequence for. So I'm with you.

00:44:37.160 — 00:44:38.120 · Speaker 5

It's yeah.

00:44:38.480 — 00:44:45.720 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

At first I was like, I guess I might use it a little bit. I guess what replaces rows, you know, when you use rows or columns to increment?

00:44:45.720 — 00:44:47.120 · Speaker 5

Yeah, I thought it than that.

00:44:47.920 — 00:45:13.930 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

But it's way. Yeah. Hundred percent agree. It's way better now. Especially when you understand dates. And the more you use it, the more you realize, wow, this is a really versatile function. Rapid-fire incoming 20 questions. Yes or no answers. No hedging allowed. Circular References. VBA, The Future of Excel, and more.

Let's find out what our guest really thinks. Circular references and models.

00:45:15.170 — 00:45:17.330 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

No, no. Definitely not.

00:45:17.530 — 00:45:19.850 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I got that earlier today too. VBA?

00:45:21.370 — 00:45:22.050 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Nah.

00:45:22.210 — 00:45:25.490 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

What about lambdas in our models if necessary?

Yes. Okay.

00:45:27.130 — 00:45:29.010 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

External workbook links.

00:45:30.450 — 00:45:32.290 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Not. Not if I can help it.

00:45:32.850 — 00:45:36.290 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Should modelers primarily use keyboard shortcuts?

00:45:36.930 — 00:45:37.610 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yes.

00:45:37.930 — 00:45:41.690 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Okay. Should models always be print ready?

00:45:43.570 — 00:45:45.690 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yes, but I will elaborate on that.

00:45:45.730 — 00:45:50.170 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

All right. We'll let you elaborate on the end. Our merge cells. Ever acceptable in a model.

00:45:50.210 — 00:45:52.650 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Never never never never you.

00:45:52.690 — 00:46:02.210 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I get such a variance on that. My favorite answer was somebody said it goes my saying. I say around the audience, you around the offices use merge cells. You go to hell.

00:46:04.290 — 00:46:12.570 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

And so that was probably the most forward answer I got. I'm like, where do you stand on that again? So not surprised. Okay. Should financial modelers learn Python in Excel?

00:46:13.250 — 00:46:16.250 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yes. But no. Yes, but I don't.

00:46:16.290 — 00:46:18.410 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Okay. What about Power Query?

00:46:18.810 — 00:46:19.970 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Absolutely yes.

00:46:20.130 — 00:46:21.410 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

How about power BI?

00:46:22.010 — 00:46:23.970 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. Yeah. It's useful.

00:46:24.010 — 00:46:33.330 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

So should every financial modeler be able to build a fully integrated three statement model? Yeah. Will excel ever die? The eternal question.

00:46:33.330 — 00:46:35.290 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Of course not. Never.

00:46:35.810 — 00:46:46.330 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I already know the answer to the next one. I'm almost ready to take that question. Have you used AI to help you build a model? Your answer is yes. There. What financial statement is most important for you? Income statement, balance sheet or cash flow?

00:46:46.370 — 00:46:50.090 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Well, I tend to spend more time on the PNL, so PNL probably.

00:46:50.130 — 00:46:53.730 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Okay. Your favorite LM. Which one do you like to use?

00:46:53.770 — 00:46:54.450 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Claude.

00:46:54.450 — 00:46:57.370 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Mostly I'm notifying Microsoft. I'm kidding.

00:46:59.330 — 00:47:11.770 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I've actually Claude as well. That's my favorite. So we're both on the same boat. Okay, if you could pick only one for all your models, you could either run sensitivity analysis or scenario analysis. Which one would you pick?

00:47:11.770 — 00:47:16.090 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Scenarios are more detailed, I suppose. So, yeah. Scenarios.

00:47:16.130 — 00:47:21.130 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Do you believe financial models are the number one corporate decision making tool.

00:47:21.170 — 00:47:23.290 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

From where I sit? Yes.

00:47:23.530 — 00:47:29.970 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Okay. Fair enough. We get all kinds of answers on that one. What's your favorite lookup function? Which ones you turn to the most?

00:47:29.970 — 00:47:31.090 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

I like the x lookup.

00:47:31.090 — 00:47:42.770 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I'm with you. That's usually my go to that or Power Query, which isn't a lookup function, but of course. All right. So as we wrap up here, let me you wanted to elaborate. I think you said print ready.

00:47:42.810 — 00:48:09.650 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah. On the print. Elaborate on that is something that I find surprising about the FMI qualification is that you have to make sure that everything is printable. I guess some people must use it, but I don't know anyone who prints a model out. But it's apparently important. But I suppose Like, yes, you do need to do it if you want to pass the exam, but I don't think anybody else would print a model, I don't know.

Do you ever print models, Paul?

00:48:09.650 — 00:48:13.170 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

I know. I'll send in a note telling him it's overrated.

00:48:14.330 — 00:48:17.970 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, yeah, but maybe it's important for certain industries, I don't know.

00:48:18.010 — 00:48:30.850 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah, and certain bosses. Sometimes I guess they'll need it. But I'm with you. I mean, many of the models I built, especially FP models, we had tons of cost centers and stuff. It just wasn't practical that nobody was printing those models.

00:48:30.850 — 00:48:37.330 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Yeah, but if you want to pass the exam, you have to, like, hit all the marks. And that's one of them in the FMR. Yeah. So yeah.

00:48:37.370 — 00:48:41.170 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yep. That makes sense. Anything else you want to elaborate on there before we wrap up notes.

00:48:41.170 — 00:48:44.770 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

That's good I think I kind of all right. Got my opinions in there. Yeah.

00:48:44.810 — 00:48:46.330 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Any final thoughts you want to share?

00:48:46.370 — 00:48:50.250 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Always nice to chat to you, Paul. A really interesting conversation. Thank you.

00:48:50.290 — 00:48:55.650 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Thank you. Enjoyed it. And if people want to learn more about you, where should they go? If you want to learn more about your offering, probably.

00:48:55.650 — 00:49:03.090 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

I spent most of my time on LinkedIn, so just looking me up there and my website is Plumb Solutions Kokomo, which is perfect.

00:49:03.370 — 00:49:20.370 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Yeah, we'll throw both of those in the show notes. I know you're on LinkedIn a lot. We cross paths pretty regularly. Appreciate all you've done in modeling and I've enjoyed following you. Now, if you've spent seven, eight years, probably so the first saw you on LinkedIn, I think. So it's been a while now and I've always appreciated your work.

So thanks for coming on the show.

00:49:20.410 — 00:49:21.290 ·Guest: Danielle Stein Fairhurst

Thanks, Paul.

00:49:21.450 — 00:49:37.410 ·Host: Paul Barnhurst

Financial Modeler's Corner was brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. This year I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler Certification and it made me a better financial modeler. What are you waiting for? Visit FMI at www.fminstitute.com/podcast and use code podcast to save 15% when you enrol in one of the accreditations today.