The CFO Role is Changing for Finance Leaders to Own AI, Talent, and Strategy with Omar Choucair
In this episode of FP&A Unlocked, host Paul Barnhurst sits down with Omar Choucair, the CFO of Trintech, to discuss the evolving role of the CFO, the importance of technology in finance, and the strategic value of FP&A teams. Omar shares insights on how AI is transforming financial operations, the need for technical skills in FP&A, and the shift in CFO responsibilities over the years.
Omar Choucair brings over 25 years of experience in corporate finance, accounting, governance, and FP&A. His background spans private equity, public company software businesses, and M&A deals, having successfully navigated over 40 major transactions. With expertise in financial software solutions, he leads Trintech in helping businesses automate and streamline critical financial processes.
Expect to Learn:
The evolving responsibilities of CFOs and the strategic value they provide in today's organizations
How AI and technology are revolutionizing finance and FP&A functions
The critical role of FP&A in helping companies understand and act on data
Why intellectual curiosity and technology expertise are essential for modern FP&A professionals
Key insights on hiring and developing top FP&A talent
Here are a few quotes from the episode:
“To be successful in FP&A, you have to be technically savvy. If you are afraid of technology, you will not do well in FP&A.” – Omar Choucair
“The CFO is the voice of reason, objective under pressure, and the protector of the company and its employees.” – Omar Choucair
Omar discusses the increased pressure on CFOs, the growing reliance on AI tools like ChatGPT, and the importance of being inquisitive to drive better financial insights. He also touches on the importance of collaboration between FP&A and other departments to drive business success and better decision-making.
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Follow Omar:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/omar-choucair-cpa-80264815/
Company - https://www.trintech.com/
Earn Your CPE Credit
For CPE credit, please go to earmarkcpe.com, listen to the episode, download the app, answer a few questions, and earn your CPE certification. To earn education credits for the FP&A Certificate, take the quiz on Earmark and contact Paul Barnhurst for further details.
In Today’s Episode:
[02:04] - Omar’s Career Journey and Experience in Finance
[04:41] - Defining Great FP&A and What It Looks Like in Practice
[07:19] - The Role of Technology in Modern FP&A
[11:40] - Leveraging AI to Drive Efficiency in Finance
[14:04] - The Key to Unlocking FP&A Success
[26:21] - Best Practices for Building and Leading an FP&A Team
[33:13] - Integrating Business Intelligence into FP&A Workflows
[38:55] - Managing the Budgeting Process and Alignment with ELT
[44:27] - Key Skills for Future FP&A Leaders and Career Advice
Full Show Transcript
[00:00:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Are you tired of being seen as just the spreadsheet person while others get a seat at the table? Well then, welcome to FP&A unlocked where finance meets strategy. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, the FP&A Guy. Each week we bring you conversations and practical advice from thought leaders, industry experts, and practitioners who are reshaping the role of FP&A in today's business world. Together, we'll uncover the strategies and experiences that separate good FP&A professionals from great ones, helping you elevate your career and drive strategic impact. Speaking of strategic impact, our title sponsor for FP&A Unlocked is Campfire, the ERP that's helping modern finance teams close fast and scale faster. Today's guest is someone who's earned that coveted seat at the table. I'm excited to welcome Omar. Omar, welcome to the show.
[00:01:32] Guest: Omar Choucair: Thanks. Glad to be here.
[00:01:34] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, really excited to have you. So Omar is the CFO of Trintech. And just a little bit about him before we jump into our questions. So like I said, he's the CFO at Trintech, a company that provides financial software solutions. He has extensive experience in corporate finance, accounting, governance and FP&A in both private equity and public company software businesses. He is known for his exceptional leadership, communication, interpersonal and change management skills with a proven history of success in complex restructurings, major capital market transactions, M&A and driving operational excellence. He has managed over 40 M&A deals, SaaS and subscription based platforms, sales compensation and go to market integrations and has been involved in public equity and debt financing. He has also served as the CFO of multiview, a Warburg Pincus backed B2B software platform, and DG Fast Channel, a B2B software platform delivering mission critical media content. He began his career as a CPA at KPMG, where he managed publicly traded large multinational services and technology company audits to the background. I always enjoy getting to talk to CFOs and hearing their stories. And I know you've been a CFO for a few years now.
[00:03:06] Guest: Omar Choucair: I've been the CFO for fintech for about six years. And yes, I've done this for a long time, and being a CFO for a software technology company is a very exciting and adventurous, uh, position, that's for sure.
[00:03:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I am sure it is. I've worked for a few software companies on the FP&A side, and it's always been an adventure, even there. So one of the questions we like to start with, every guest is, in your opinion, what does great FP&A look like if your company has great FP&A ? What does that look like?
[00:03:36] Guest: Omar Choucair: You know, it's a great question. And just given the number of years that I spent working in publicly traded companies as an auditor at KPMG for ten years. The one thing that really struck out is, uh, you can differentiate what's good versus great, and you can easily see what's bad. So given the experience of spending a decade, you know, auditing public companies and private companies. That distinction became very, very well burnt into my head. So what I like to think is great is in FP&A is a very hard working, knowledgeable, technology savvy group that engages with the operations of the company. And I really strongly believe that the FP&A team is really just an extension of the marketing team, the sales team, the R&D team, the professional services team, the, uh, the corporate team. I mean, the FP&A team has to have a partner connected directly with their peers in the other departments. And for me, that is probably the most important quality that we look for in FP&A professionals.
[00:04:52] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I mean, I'm hearing a few things, but if I had to boil it down, I think there's a couple things you want. Those that are technically savvy, deep operational understanding of the business, and that ability to partner in such a way that they're not viewed as an outsider, but they're just part of the team that has a certain role to fulfill.
[00:05:11] Guest: Omar Choucair: Yes. And I would add on to that, they have to develop the confidence, and they have to develop this relationship with sales and marketing that they're really there to help them. They're not there to, uh, to identify problems and then communicate back to home base. And I think that's really important. And once you develop that trust, then the amount of information back and forth is so important to the overall benefit of the company.
[00:05:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What's the key in your experience or what's kind of needed to really unlock great FP&A . Is there something as a CFO you need to be doing? Is it just developing that trust or is there a key to, you know, you come into an organization. I'm sure you've seen it. And the FPA is hopefully not bad, but it might be okay to good. Any thoughts on unlocking it to that kind of next level?
[00:06:01] Guest: Omar Choucair: I think the unlocking has two components, and the first component is just the. You have to be inquisitive, like you really have to ask as many questions as you can and be prepared, because when you ask a lot of questions, you get a lot of answers. And if you only ask ten questions, you're only going to get ten PowerPoints. But if you ask 50 questions, you're going to get 50 PowerPoints. And a lot of times as a new CFO comes in, everybody wants to, you know, they want to engage with he or she. And as a result, they're going to give you all this information. So be prepared to get all that information and then it takes more time. Right. So it's more time for you to engage with all that. The second part is I'm a big proponent of competitor analysis. And it's one thing to say that your company is doing well. But are you really doing well? Because then you have to get into and say, well, there's company A, there's company B and company C, well, how are they doing? And are they doing something different or better than you? So it's the tandem of intellectual curiosity and detail. And how are you comparing versus your peers?
[00:07:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you. I appreciate that and I love that you said intellectual curiosity. One of my favorite ways I've heard it explained is by someone on the show who called it humble curiosity, because you're really seeking to learn to understand so you can help them. Versus sometimes you have the person who just wants to listen so they can tell you what the solution is. Yeah, their curiosity is motivated to kind of control things, so to speak, versus truly learn and be that partner. And so I love that.
[00:07:43] Guest: Omar Choucair: Well, the only thing I would say to that is I tell everybody, don't take yourself too seriously. And I really and I really, I honestly believe do not take yourself too seriously. I can always try to learn something every day. And it's really important that you develop that trust. Because I could be wrong with my I mean, I immediately have an opinion, but I try not to voice that opinion until we've had all the people, you know, share their input. But it's really important for people to think that you're, you're trying to help them. But again, we're not here and we're not in a popularity contest either. We're not trying to be the most popular group in the company that's usually reserved for sales or marketing.
[00:08:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I was just thinking the same thing. Definitely a lot of truth in that. So you've been CFO of Trent Tech? I think you said seven years. Now. Tell us a little bit about the company, what trend tech does and kind of your experience there.
[00:08:39] Guest: Omar Choucair: Sure. So we operate in a very interesting segment of the market. So we sell financial clothes automation tools to the office of the CFO. So when I came in looking at this business, I was actually going to be the CFO of a company that sells software to the office of the CFO. So that was, you know, interesting. And I like to also tell people everybody's in sales. So it doesn't matter what department you're in, everybody's in sales. And that appealed to me when I was looking at this, you know, versus a couple of other opportunities. So we are able to go into customers large, large enterprise, medium enterprise customers and help them with very painful areas in their business, which could be reconciling accounts, matching point of sale to, you know, credit cards, automating journal entries that could take days and days of time, creating task managers that say, okay, if you if you got 100 to 1000 people in your accounting organization. You know who's doing what. What Sally is doing versus Bob and enabling all that to create efficiencies and reduce and eliminate manual work and spreadsheets. I mean, Excel will always be critical for a company, but you shouldn't use Excel for something that you can automate. And I really, really firmly we preach that from the treetops. Excel is a great tool, but you shouldn't rely on Excel for something that can be automated and run at night.
[00:10:16] Guest: Omar Choucair: Run during the day when you can go do something else. So that's what we do. So our software is integrated with, you know, 80 of the top ERP in the world. We do about 70% of our business in North America. 30% of our business is in India and APAC. We have well over 600 employees. And so we, uh, we serve a really mission critical role inside the office of the CFO. And as you can imagine, that has changed significantly over the last, you know, 10 to 15 years. And now it's even changed even more in the last maybe two years, a year and a half, just due to AI. And, you know, we pioneered, you know, machine learning and bots. And we've created so much value over the last five, you know, the last 5 to 10 plus years. And now there's this new, you know, hype that's going on with AI. And so there's a lot of misconceptions about what AI is and what AI is not. And people are mischaracterizing what AI is versus, you know, technology. Maybe that, you know, we've had for 2 or 3 years in the past. So all that is just making the job and the role as a steward of, you know, the company's resources for the CFO, a lot more difficult.
[00:11:33] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Not surprised to hear you say that. I mean, everybody is dealing with the impact of AI, which will be fabulous. A lot of great things it can do, but there's a ton of hype out there. There's marketing, there's confusion in the market, and everybody's trying to figure out what does AI mean for finance? How should I really be thinking about it? And, you know, as you've mentioned, things that we might have had for 3 or 4 years, everything now seems to get labeled as AI, whether it really is or not. And so there's a lot of noise.
[00:12:05] Guest: Omar Choucair: Yes there is.
[00:12:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: How are you guys managing that noise? Before you get another question, I'm just kind of curious because, you know, I do another podcast on AI and technology and this is an area I'm passionate about. Are you guys thinking about the noise and kind of managing it?
[00:12:18] Guest: Omar Choucair: So there's a couple of different areas. So the first one is we have uh, integrated as much as we can on the people side, and there are massive improvements and we've got use cases by department. So we're owned by private equity. And so with that, there's a certain level of rigor that we go through on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. Right. Which is good. I'm not complaining. But what's really important is we're tracking use cases of wins. Like what have we used AI for. So clearly in customer success and customer support and all of our FP&A and all of our competitive modeling, competitive outreach, it's a massive time saver, just overwhelmingly. But it's relatively inexpensive. We have an enterprise license with ChatGPT, and we put everybody on that, and we have just fully utilized that as much as we can. And so from our internal side, we're pushing every department to create use cases, create ROI and say this is. And basically creating dollars and cents of what we've saved with AI. So that's inside the company separately with our vendors, our software vendors, we've received a lot of input in terms of this is an AI upgrade. This is an upgrade and I think we're taking a really strong look at, you know, is it really an upgrade. And, you know, are they trying to monetize that additional AI module? And so we're going through all that with our vendors. And we've pushed very hard to see what the vendors have in their roadmap for us. And then the flip side is what are we doing inside our applications that we're selling to our, you know, 2500 to 3000 customers, which is critical in terms of what our roadmap is.
[00:14:08] Guest: Omar Choucair: And what we've done is we have our own LLM inside, you know, obviously partitioned, you know, for customers. And what we really have is what is unique is the data. And so the AI result is only as good as the data elements and the data sets that companies have. And the data is critical. And we have this pristine data from customers for years and years of all their, you know, accounting, you know, results, etc.. So that's a huge benefit for us in terms of rolling out additional roadmap items on AI enhancements, etc. we've actually dropped Copilot into the app. So if you are a customer and you have, you know, 2 or 3 brand new, uh, accountants or people that are on the on the app, they can just simply go into the app and say, hey, I just started, you know, give me ten things I need to know about. And it just creates it inside. So there's a lot of slick enhancements that we've done. And I think we're trying to gauge what the ROI is. What problem are we trying to solve for our customer and for us? We've solved all those problems for the most part, right. But now customers have new problems. So it's a very interesting time to be in the, uh, in the office of the CFO. And even more interesting, as a software provider, you know, selling to the office of the CFO.
[00:15:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Now, that does help. I appreciate that, and I fully agree with you. It's a really interesting time. I'm curious, you kind of look back over your career. I think you've, if I remember right, you've been a CFO for about 25 years now. This is your third company. How have you seen the role kind of change during that time? Like is it do you feel like it's the same or there's been a lot of change or just would love to get your perspective?
[00:15:47] Guest: Omar Choucair: Well, I think it's changed a lot. And I think it depends if you're a public company versus a private company, I think on the public company side, the role has changed, but it's still very much the same. It's managing expectations and it's managing your shareholder base and managing your sell side analysts and managing the board. And, you know, there's a whole separate set of responsibilities as a public company. And yes, those have changed, but it's very much the same objectives in terms of financial performance, financial projections, engagement with sell side analysts, engagement with investors almost the same. There's probably some additional, you know, help that you've had through AI and a lot of different help on the public side. On the private side I think it's changed a significant amount. Like just it's almost a different thing. Night and day. If you go back and look over the last five to 10 to 15 years and especially, you know, in the last five years, I guess since Covid, it's changed significantly in the sense that once Covid hit, everybody turned to the CFO, the CEO, the revenue, the board, everybody just they deluge the CFO. And as a result, I think the span of control, you know, really expanded in terms of HR, in terms of information security, IT legal.
[00:17:07] Guest: Omar Choucair: I've even seen CFOs that are now running deal desks and running, you know, more operational type items. And so that's just a fact. And so I think those have piled on. I think the main reason is that the CFOs, the voice of reason and they are fair, they're objective, uh, hopefully, you know, cool under pressure. They don't try not to jump one way or the other. And like I said earlier, we're not necessarily here to win a personality contest. You know, we're here to protect the company, protect the employees, and protect the business model. And the other thing I'll say is, I think the CFO is, you know, locked hand in hand with the CEO. And I think that relationship has just gotten closer and closer over the last four or 5 or 6 years. I'm fortunate to have a great, you know, great relationship with the CEO. And I think as a as a CFO and if you do not have that relationship, it's going to be probably hard for you to really fulfill your true potential if you don't have that, you know, connection with the CEO.
[00:18:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I would agree with that. I've seen enough where it's not there. It's a struggle and it just doesn't work well.And now, a brief message from our sponsor, Campfire. Build a best-in-class AI-native ERP designed for modern finance and accounting teams. With Campfire, you can automate revenue, streamline your close, and centralize accounting, all in one unified platform. And now they've hosted Finance Forward, a first-of-its-kind AI summit in San Francisco. They brought together the sharpest minds in finance and operations, all focused on how to actually use AI to move the needle. You don't even have to travel to learn the tactical skills to put your team ahead. You can stream the whole thing on demand, totally free, anytime after the event. So if you're ready to get tactical about AI and finance, head to campfire.ai and register for the on-demand content for free. That's Campfire, where finance teams go to think forward.
[00:19:15] Guest: Omar Choucair: I think the other thing that's changed is that that the communication skills have to expand and meaning storytelling, like you really have to be able to explain the story and it doesn't matter that well, revenues are up like, you know, 12%. It's got to be more than that. It has to be why? Which region, which products, you know, and if and if it was off, then why did that happen? And you just pull the string and it just keeps coming undone. And so I think that gets back to the tenacity and just having the data set in your head that you feel confident in answering those questions.
[00:19:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I like that you said storytelling and more about the why and not the surface level why, but the digging and what does it mean and why is it important? And what do we do with this information? One thing I'm kind of curious about, and I'm pretty sure I know the answer here, but would you say you feel like the pressure is higher today than ever before on CFOs and finance? If they're doing more, that span of controls increases. You know, the expectations appear to be higher. You feel like that's putting more strain.
[00:20:25] Guest: Omar Choucair: I think it depends on the person. I mean, I've always felt immense pressure from the last 25 years, probably reflected in my blood pressure. Right. But I think it's I think a lot of it's self-induced. And I think, you know, if you really want to excel, then absolutely, you're going to have pressure. If you didn't have pressure, you're probably not doing your work, you're probably not doing your job. So it just comes with the territory. And in order to to deal with that you have to have great lieutenants. You have to have great, not just good, you have to have great personnel. And in all, in all the seats that you have in the direct reports, you have to have incredibly talented people, you know, working and all rowing in the same direction. And it's increasingly difficult to find really good people. It's as hard as it's ever been. And it was pretty hard for years.
[00:21:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I've heard that. I've heard it's becoming harder to find good finance and accounting talent.
[00:21:25] Guest: Omar Choucair: And the reason is because a lot of you know, if you look at the, uh, the enrollment in, in accounting programs across the US and colleges, it's down. And it's not down by a little bit. It's down by a lot. And so, you know, unfortunately that's bad for companies. It may work in our favor as a software company selling into the office of the CFO. Because all that means is you have fewer people to do the same or a greater amount of work than the only way you can leverage is through technology. You have to invest in technology.
[00:21:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You have no benefit for the company, but can be a challenge for you from a staffing perspective. At the same time, I'm curious, you know, you mentioned a little bit how CFOs changed over your career. And as you look back, how has FP&A changed? There are a lot of people who talk about how it's changed a lot, but I'd love to get your perspective.
[00:22:13] Guest: Omar Choucair: A lot of people thought maybe 5 to 10 years ago it was just reporting the numbers, and you could hire accountants that just you could hire whoever, you can hire finance people or accounting folks to come in and do FP&A . And I think if you look at where people are today, it's just become so much more sophisticated in terms of the personnel and the technology. But but probably more important is all the data sets. Because in the past, I think you might have said, okay, what's FP&A ? Well, go talk to the sales team and, and figure out what happened to revenue or bookings or whatever. But now it's fully analyze everything on on the PNL, analyze the balance sheet, go through and look at everything. And I think the one thing we haven't talked about is just the advent of, you know, business intelligence. You also have the business intelligence teams that report into the FP&A . And it's a huge benefit to have incredibly smart people. And we use power BI. Or you could use whatever, you know, you could use whatever system they use. But the linkage between the data sets your visual, whether it's power BI and the connectivity into your FP&A system. It couldn't be more important. And so to the extent that those are all hunting and connected, you have such an advantage because then all your people are just really following up on the variances and saying, well, why did this happen? Why did this happen? And so I don't have to go into that detail because we've got people that are doing that and we talk about it all the time. It's so important that that link between the data, your buy, your FP&A , your accounting. I think the other thing that's changed is that to be truly successful in FP&A , you have to be pretty technically savvy. If you are afraid of technology and you're not willing to understand the technology, you will not really do well in NFPA. It just won't happen.
[00:24:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And we definitely see that more and more. I was talking to a recruiter recently and he said one of the biggest requests he gets when they're looking for fat is often wanting somebody with either Tableau or Power BI skills. But the other big thing he mentioned, which isn't maybe directly technical, but I think is an outpouring of this, is he said, we need people that don't just hand the data to the business. They need to help the business know what to do with the data, because there's, you know, we've we're more awash in data than we've ever been. And new data doesn't tell you what to do with it. And that's where we need, you know, that, like you said, the connection of the business intelligence and the FP&A and everybody to help interpret and guide with what what it all means.
[00:25:01] Guest: Omar Choucair: It's so true. And, you know, we have a very strong, um, you know, recruiting team, but we also use third party recruiters. Actually, my daughter is a finance and accounting recruiter, you know, executive recruiter in the Dallas area. And it's so important that you get the right people to come into your business. It's probably job number one. You have to get the right talent. And you know, we're lucky in Dallas that there's a lot of great talent in Dallas, but there's a lot of companies that are moving to Dallas. So the competition for these, you know, class A players is intense and people can do very well if they can blend together the data set, the ability to mine the data. And then we're not asking them to be perfect on day one because we can train them, right. We can train people when they come in with, you know, how to talk about this or that and give them additional pointers. But they do need to have the basics down. And these are people that could maybe have 5 to 7 years of experience. But more importantly, they have to want to do it like we want. We need people that want to learn as opposed to people who don't want to learn.
[00:26:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I couldn't agree more with all of that. So when you look for someone in hiring, you're looking for an FP&A role. What are those key characteristics, maybe key skills you're looking for? You've mentioned technology a little bit, obviously willingness to learn. But any thoughts there?
[00:26:22] Guest: Omar Choucair: So for me personally, what we like to have are people that have worked in larger organizations. So I think just for me, because I've worked in larger organizations, whether it's KPMG or some other firms and, and you're open to different issues, and most of the time those larger companies have better controls and procedures and platforms and people and processes. And that's really that's really important. So we like to find people that have worked in larger organizations that can come with a certain level of maturity in terms of controls. So it doesn't have to be, but I think that's important. We still love hiring people that worked in public accounting. Probably the best recruit would be somebody that worked in public accounting that also has, you know, three or 4 to 5 years of industry experience and just ready to to make that next jump. And so we think of that as people that have public and private. So they have public and private experience. We think that's really, really, really good. And then it can be in a public company or private company. And the other thing is we like to hire people that have software or technology backgrounds.
[00:27:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That makes sense. I appreciate that. So I'm going to shift gears here a little bit. And we're going to talk about whether people have a love-hate relationship with this part of FP&A . There's not much in between budgeting, right? Some people say it's a swear word and others really see a lot of value in it. So I would love to know. When you think of the budgeting process, how do you think about it as a CFO, how are you thinking about it?
[00:27:51] Guest: Omar Choucair: Yeah, I think a couple of thoughts. I think the budgeting process, we call it the annual operating plan, whatever you call it is, is really important. I think some people may downplay how important it is, but it really is. It's critical. It's like a really important process. And, uh, I think the one thing is when you come into an organization, don't feel bad about breaking the way it's been done, because a lot of people just do the same thing year after year after year, and they don't know why they did it. And that's just a pet peeve of why do you keep doing something that you did before, you don't know why you did it? So I always tell people to be very open and honest with the program. But working in a private equity, you know, environment, the annual operating plan is just important because that's what everybody signs up to. That's what we signed up for. And you have to have a goal and you have to have a mission. And that's our mission. And I think 95% of every private equity company is exactly the same. Now in a public company, it's really your forecast. What's your consensus of your sell side analysts numbers.
[00:28:57] Guest: Omar Choucair: And you could have two or you could have 20, you know, sell side analysts. And it's like what's the consensus. So it's a little different on the public side. But well on the public side they're also looking at their their bonus. Right. So it's all the HQ bonuses and stuff similar to PE but on the private equity side, it's the mission. It's like it's the contract that we agree between the company and the board. This is what we agreed to deliver. We don't take it lightly and we don't underestimate, you know, the amount of time and effort that we go through. And obviously most companies are going through that, you know, today. So to break it apart, obviously the technology piece is important. And hopefully people have good technology in terms of being able to run scenario modeling and all that kind of stuff. So let's assume that that, that people do have good back end technology and front end technology. But the most important thing is getting alignment. You know, with the ELT, which we just executive leadership team and getting the alignment, I think is, is 50 to 60% of the work. And you can't underestimate the importance of open dialog sharing, you know, debating, arguing about what's more important, you know, is it the marketing? Is it the people? Is it the strategy? All that is, is just critical.
[00:30:14] Guest: Omar Choucair: And I actually I love that part of the budgeting process. And for us, it doesn't just start like with the initial budget or the plan. It continues every quarter in most private equity companies have quarterly meetings. And, you know, there's there's always a lot of strategy that goes on. And it's the strategy of, you know, the product roadmap. It's the incremental revenue from each one of the product. You know, line items. It's your competition, it's global expansion. And, you know, for us, running a global business adds a different complexity to everything, whether it's FX, whether it's different, different regulations in different countries, different HR policies. It's just it's a more complicated process. So, um, it's very important to answer your question. I think it's super important. Has it changed over time? It probably has. But, uh, I think of it as just the it's the handshake contract that the company has. Well, we'll put it this way. The ELT has with the employees because that's what we agreed to. And then the relationship that we have with the board.
[00:31:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And I think you mentioned probably the you said one of the hardest parts and takes a good, you know, portion of the time is getting that ELT alignment right, getting everybody on the same page at a leadership level and bought into what that plan's going to be. Any advice on how to, uh, make sure that's happening? Because, I mean, I've, I've seen some plans where ELT is. I'll just roll it all up. We'll figure it all out after, and then they just start cutting numbers and you end up with something people don't recognize or, you know, things like that. So what's the kind of key? Is there a framework or process or love? Any thoughts on the key to kind of making sure there's really that alignment there? It's a really good question.
[00:31:58] Guest: Omar Choucair: And companies do it differently. I think a lot of times, you know, the the CEO would like to give kind of an open book to, you know, the sales and product and marketing. So let's see what they have to say. But let's let's open it up. And then whenever you do that, it's like, you know, what do you want for Christmas? Well, it's a list 20 pages long. And then so as a result, then you then you go through this culling exercise, which can be damning and maddening and frustrating and, and time consuming all at the same time. And I think a lot of companies do that. I think the alternative is just to put some wrappers around. Okay. Well, we think our revenue growth should be between X and Y. We think our expense growth should be between X and Y. And I think now given after Covid, a lot of companies really moved up their their employee base after Covid just took advantage of a lot of different things. And I think now I think what's happening is you see a lot of larger companies that are cutting back on employees and they're announcing layoffs, but they're doing it under the guise of AI. And so I think AI is just a filter. It's just a it's a it's it's a go look over here while I'm doing this over here. And I think that's really what we're seeing is that people just maybe have overhired in the past. And so as a PE company, you really have to be flexible and agile as you see your business go through different growth curves. So I think it's probably a little bit better to put, you know, put some rappers in terms of what we think this could be. And then then have the debate and debate it as long as you can. And that debate can take 2 or 3 months. You can start the debate in November and you can finish it sometime in December or January. Some people just don't have the patience to go through that. So it just depends on the company.
[00:33:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, no I agree. Obviously there's a lot depends on the company. But I'm curious in general if you could change one thing about the way most companies budget. Is there something you would change as you look kind of at your career and see how budgeting is done?
[00:33:57] Guest: Omar Choucair: I think the one thing I would probably change is because I know we have so much to do in a given day, is let's come to a conclusion faster. Like, in other words, don't negotiate and hold back and hold back and say, well, if I wait another week, maybe they'll cave. That's just nobody really has time for that. So it's really just be more objective and be more upfront early and save the time and compress the time in the budget. That's what I would like to do. But but again, it takes trust and you have to get people to get on the same train.
[00:34:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, there definitely has to be a high level of trust. It's easier said than done to just say, okay, everybody put your cards on the table and let's figure this out versus, you know, so and so has that half a million in his back pocket or whatever it might be.
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[00:36:06] Guest: Omar Choucair: Right. And I think maybe the larger the organization, the more back pocket items that you have. But I think the flip side is if you're if you're FP&A team is doing a really good job, you know, where all the back pocket items are. So I already know that. So it's not like because it's so visible to everybody, especially if you if you start down at the vendor level and just are rolling all the expenses up, it's hard. It's hard to.
[00:36:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It's a great point. If FP&A really knows the business and they know the detailed expenses and the build up, it's really hard to hide anything material.
[00:36:36] Guest: Omar Choucair: And sometimes I get in the bad habit of asking a question that I already know the answer to. So it's those rhetorical questions that sometimes can get you in trouble.
[00:36:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I've been there. I know what you're talking about. As you look back over your career, is there one life lesson that has helped you the most?
[00:36:51] Guest: Omar Choucair: I mean, for for me, it's I would tell people, don't be afraid to take risks in your career and just, you know, if you're a finance professional, you should not be worried about taking a risk. And when I say a risk, meaning to leave for a different company or to go up to a different position, and I did that when I left the accounting world, and it was a pretty big risk to leave and go to a fledgling, uh, you know, small public company. But it was a great, great, great, you know, move on my part for so for a lot of different reasons. But I would just say, don't be afraid, you know, be confident in your skills and just know that whatever you do on the finance accounting side, it's going to be a lot of work. But, you know, you can also say if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. So I think that's, uh, not everybody's like like me, but that's just that's just me personally.
[00:37:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I think that's a great advice in general. You know, obviously you personally, but the whole idea of risk and being willing to take risk because we tend to sometimes be a little too risk averse in finance or at least have that reputation. And I know a lot of people are always shocked when I started my business and left the finance world, like, how did you take that risk? And I, you know, I did the analysis and said, how is it any more risky than working for a company? And they're gonna they could fire me tomorrow. At least I control things at the moment. And I'm going to learn a lot.
[00:38:14] Guest: Omar Choucair: Right, right. So that's what I would tell people. And just don't be afraid.
[00:38:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great advice. All right. So we have this section. We asked some pretty similar questions of every guest. Sometimes we move them around a little bit. But these first two we ask every guest what is the number one technical skill that FP&A professionals should master?
[00:38:35] Guest: Omar Choucair: I'd say the number one technical skill would be any kind of data mining, or not so much the data mining. But to understand the connection between your data sets and your systems. And I don't know what skill that is, but to understand Salesforce and understand your ERP and understand the operational data. Get to know where the data lives, and once you can figure that out, you will be so much further ahead of the curve than anybody else.
[00:39:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Incredibly valuable. That was one of the things that helped me the most. My career is I came from a data role where I had been doing report writing for a year and a half and pulling the data every day, and then moved into FP&A . And my boss loved me because I had access to the data and I could pull whatever he needed. I know what you're talking about. There's incredible value and really understanding and being able to work with those data sets. What about that softer human skill?
[00:39:29] Guest: Omar Choucair: I would say the human skill would be be very open to other people's opinions. Just try not to be so close minded when you feel like you're right. But it's refreshing. I think for people on the other side of a CFO to be able, you know, to have them listen to what you're saying, understand, ask a lot of questions and just be open to somebody else's view. And I think that's, uh. You don't have to agree with them. You just have to listen to them. And I think once people see that you're listening to them, even if you disagree with them, they'll say, well, at least at least Omar was fair. At least, at least he took the time to hear me out with my with my position, even though I thought it didn't make any sense. But I did take the time to listen.
[00:40:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great, great advice. I really like that. So really taking that time to listen to opinions and give people that chance to be heard. What has you most excited about the future of FP&A ? As you look out in the, you know, the crazy fast world we're in these days.
[00:40:30] Guest: Omar Choucair: I think the one thing that's exciting is that there's a lot of technology that should make our jobs easier, right? So there are certain things that will never change in our business. Right. And that's talking to the sales team, talking to the marketing team, talking to the board, etc.. But the fact that the technology is changing so fast, I will have twice the information next year that I had this year. And that's all because of technology. I believe that 100%. And if you're armed with the right information, you'll typically win every argument that you have. If you have the right information and you're savvy enough to to get around the, you know, the rough parts, if you have all the information, if you have twice as much information next October, then this October, then you're in a really good spot.
[00:41:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Appreciate that one. All right. So we have to ask this one. We haven't asked any Excel questions. I can't have a finance podcast without at least one Excel question. So if Excel removed one feature tomorrow, which one would cause you the most panic?
[00:41:31] Guest: Omar Choucair: If they took away the ability to put more than one tab in a spreadsheet, that would be. That would be painful. How about that? I don't know if anybody's told you.
[00:41:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: About that one yet. So I like it.
[00:41:42] Guest: Omar Choucair: If they took away the ability to add tabs to an Excel sheet, that would be really bad.
[00:41:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You know what, though? Although there are a few people I'd like to take that away. That ability from.
[00:41:52] Guest: Omar Choucair: Well, it could be. I mean, in our business, we've seen companies that have thousands of tabs in a spreadsheet trying to do reconciliation, and we go in and say, you really don't have to do this anymore. There really is a way to automate this, so you do not have to do that.
[00:42:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I definitely sit down with many an accountant, you know, trying to understand a reconciliation because I'm like, where did this come from? Oh, it was sitting on the balance sheet. Help me understand that.
[00:42:18] Guest: Omar Choucair: What chair was it sitting in the balance sheet.
[00:42:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We've I've had more more than my share of surprises over my career. We're like, how much? And unfortunately, they're never in the good direction. Why is that never happens. So. All right, so we have a few get to know you questions and then we'll wrap up here. So the first one when you're unwinding from work curious do you prefer something completely unrelated to finance. You just have, you know, kind of hobby, completely different direction. Or do you find yourself often reading, listening, you know, doing things that are kind of finance adjacent, so to speak.
[00:42:51] Guest: Omar Choucair: Not finance. So I love just listening to Spotify and then I cycle a lot. So bicycle.
[00:42:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Nice. And so Spotify music podcasts both.
[00:43:02] Guest: Omar Choucair: Uh mostly music but uh, more and more podcasts. I'll there's a lot of Wall Street Journal articles that I'll listen to. They're not necessarily podcasts, but there's a few podcasts that I've started. I've actually started thinking I should start my own podcasts. I was thinking about that, that instead of doing what you do for 30 minutes, I was thinking, just do short ten, ten minute podcasts. I think I would enjoy that because just like you're just like you're doing just to get out and and get more and more people excited about finance.
[00:43:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: In all seriousness, if you ever want to talk about I've helped several finance people start a podcast, so I'm happy to share with you a lesson.
[00:43:37] Guest: Omar Choucair: Maybe, maybe, maybe I.
[00:43:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Will feel free. Would would love to. All right. So here's kind of a fun one. If you could swap places with a CFO of any movie or fictional company, you know, from a book or that you read for a day, whose office would you take over?
[00:43:54] Guest: Omar Choucair: God, I don't know if I can answer that question.
[00:43:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Could even be from a book. Or if if not that, another company. If you want, we'll even give you.
[00:44:03] Guest: Omar Choucair: I guess. I guess if you go back, if you go back and it didn't work out so well for this guy. But the movie with Facebook was, I can't remember what it was called. What was the Facebook?
[00:44:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: The social? That wasn't the social.
[00:44:15] Guest: Omar Choucair: The social. Social. Yeah.
[00:44:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Social dilemma. Yeah.
[00:44:19] Guest: Omar Choucair: Yeah. That one. I think that would have been pretty incredible that he got smashed down on his, um, equity so bad from Mark Zuckerberg, I'm sure. You know, maybe it was not intended, but that would have been quite a company to be in at that level because there was this massive opportunity. But you know, there were absolutely no controls whatsoever. So that would have been pretty interesting. Oh, the Social Network. Yeah. It was called social.
[00:44:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yes. I was trying to.
[00:44:45] Guest: Omar Choucair: It was, it was when Facebook was called the Facebook.
[00:44:49] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, when it was, uh, I was at Yale or Harvard or whatever school he was at.
[00:44:54] Guest: Omar Choucair: At Harvard. It was at Harvard.
[00:44:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, last question to get get to know you. Then we'll wrap up here. If you could have dinner with one person in the world today, who would you pick and why?
[00:45:06] Guest: Omar Choucair: Probably Tom cruise.
[00:45:08] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Why?
[00:45:09] Guest: Omar Choucair: Because I love all of his movies. And I would just ask him. I would ask him about all 15 of his movies. That's what I like to do. That's an easy one.
[00:45:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It's a big Tom cruise fan. I do love, uh, some Top Gun Tom cruise.
[00:45:22] Guest: Omar Choucair: Yes.
[00:45:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's probably one that's probably my favorite of his. If you could offer any parting advice to our audience to be a better business partner, you know, kind of an FP&A business partner, what advice would you give?
[00:45:33] Guest: Omar Choucair: So I would say as a as FP&A like a manager, I would say, um, hire the absolute best people that you can. And if you have to pay a little more for those folks, you should you should do that. And then when they come in the business, set them up for success and give them clear expectations as to what they need to do and give them all the tools that they can. Because you've got to have good people that are working for you or you just won't be successful. And just I would say, also most as important as anything is that had that intellectual curiosity and they have to be able to communicate because you can have somebody that's really good. If they can't communicate, then that's a really that's would be very difficult for them as they progress through their career.
[00:46:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It's really hard to move up. There's a ceiling without good communication skills.
[00:46:23] Guest: Omar Choucair: Yep.
[00:46:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: If someone wants to learn more about you or learn more about fintech, what's the best way for them to do that?
[00:46:29] Guest: Omar Choucair: You know, I've got my LinkedIn, so probably the easiest way is just to hit me on LinkedIn. And if you're interested in the company, there's a there's a couple different ways you can log on to the website. And we've got agents and people that can can absolutely come back to you very quickly. We'd love to hear from you.
[00:46:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, thank you so much, Omar. I've really enjoyed chatting with you. It's been a great conversation and I appreciate you taking an hour out of your day to join us.
[00:46:53] Guest: Omar Choucair: Sure. Thank you. Have a have a great day. Take care.
[00:46:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks, everyone. That's it for today's episode of FP&A Unlocked. If you enjoy FP&A unlocked, please take a moment to leave a five-star rating and review. It's the best way to support the FP&A guy and help more FP&A professionals discover the show. Remember, you can earn CPE credit for this episode by visiting earmarkcpe.com. Downloading the app and completing the quiz. If you need continuing education credits for the FPAC certification, complete the quiz and reach out to me directly. Thanks for listening. I'm Paul Barnhurst, the FP&A guy, and I'll see you next time.