The Top Skills FP&A Hiring Managers Want from Finance Analysts to Get Hired Fast with William Spengler
In this episode of FP&A Tomorrow, host Paul Barnhurst is joined by William Spengler, founder of Frederick Fox, a recruiting firm specializing in placing top-tier finance and accounting talent. They discuss what employers are looking for in FP&A professionals and the growing demand for technical skills such as Power BI, Tableau, and SQL. William shares insights into the current job market, what makes candidates stand out, and why effective communication and a curious mindset are essential for success in finance. The episode is packed with practical advice for job seekers and finance professionals looking to advance in their careers.
William is the founder and principal of Frederick Fox, a recruiting firm that specializes in placing finance and accounting talent. Since its launch in 2019, Frederick Fox has grown rapidly, serving over 700 clients with a team of 55+ experienced recruiters. The firm has achieved this growth without outside funding, focusing on speed, accountability, and results. Frederick Fox has redefined the recruiting process, prioritizing lean systems and performance-based partnerships to help companies make confident hires. Outside of work, William is a guitar-playing father of three, a math nerd turned entrepreneur, and an enthusiast of spicy food and hot yoga.
Expect to Learn:
Why accounting and finance roles are becoming more crucial to businesses today
How to stand out as an FP&A candidate in a competitive job market
The importance of mastering technical tools like Power BI, Tableau, and SQL
Why humble curiosity is key to becoming a better business partner
How recruiters assess FP&A candidates and what skills they prioritize
Here are a few quotes from the episode:
“Accountants are becoming like the new software engineers. They’re in high demand and increasingly critical to business operations.” - William Spengler
“The biggest mistake candidates make is not reaching out directly to hiring managers with relevant examples. Networking is key.” - William Spengler
“If you're not networking continuously, you're not future-proofing your career.” - William Spengler
William Spengler shared valuable insights into the FP&A job market, highlighting the demand for technical skills, the importance of effective communication, and the value of humble curiosity. His practical advice on networking, understanding business needs, and positioning yourself for success will help both job seekers and finance professionals advance in their careers.
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In Today’s Episode
[02:28] - William's Introduction
[07:20] - Build Models or Value Companies
[10:42] - What's Driving CPA Demand
[16:00] - How People End Up in FP&A
[18:09] - CPA is Still the Gold Standard
[27:37] - Communicating Data That Drives Action
[30:30] - Identifying Action-Oriented Candidates
[36:36] - Biggest Mistake Candidates Make
[42:38] - No.1 Technical Skill for FP&A
[49:16] - Connect With William
Full Show Transcript
[00:01:35] Host: Hello everyone. Paul Barnhurst: Welcome to FP&A tomorrow where we delve into the world of financial planning analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst aka the FP&A Guy, and I'll be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A. Each week, we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts, and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting your journey, this show has something for everyone. This week, I'm thrilled to welcome William Spengler to the show. William, welcome to the show.
[00:02:16] Guest: William Spengler: Thanks, Paul. I appreciate it. I appreciate you having me on the show.
[00:02:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, really excited to have you. So the show will be a little different. Wil won't be talking to us about his deep experience in FP&A, but we will have a lot of finance conversations here. So Will is a seasoned recruiter bringing over ten years of executive search experience in accounting, finance and technology. He is the founder of Frederick Fox. Prior to finding that, Will was a partner with Teema solutions, a $ 105 million revenue privately held company. And previous to Teema, he was a senior executive recruiter at Adecco Staffing, a publicly traded company. Is acknowledged as a thought leader in the industry, well known for his client service, creativity and attention to detail. Early in his career he managed financial and technology-based activities at Booth, Smith and Wesson, and Greenspring Ventures. He holds a degree in finance from Ohio, The Ohio State University. Help me understand, why is it The Ohio State University
[00:03:22] Guest: William Spengler: I think it's one of those pompous things that Ohio State does, to be honest with you. People can't stand the Buckeyes. You know, when you go into other states, you go to, I never knew how much. Other people don't like Buckeye fans. It's pretty funny.
[00:03:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I don't hate Ohio State. I don't like them. I'm usually rude just because, yeah, they're the big school that was either rooting against. But I always love people that have to. You have to know it's Ohio State University. And I'm always like, spare me, right?
[00:03:50] Guest: William Spengler: I try not to rub it, but every now and again I'll do it with a Michigan fan. Just kind of.
[00:03:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's a good thing. You had to do it with the Michigan in Ohio State fan and vice versa. I picked that one.
[00:03:59] Guest: William Spengler: Well, thanks for the intro on my background. I'm an agency recruiter. I've been at it for 14 years. I like to say I was just young enough and just dumb enough to start a company about six years ago. Young enough in the sense that I had the energy to do it, and dumb enough to know that I didn't know what I was really getting into. And so I had the energy I was willing to take it on, you know. Frederick Cox now, just for you guys to understand, we have about 50 to 55 recruiters all agencies. We predominantly focus on accounting and finance, technology and sales and ops verticals, and we typically do at the senior level 100,000 to 300,000 a year. We are nationwide, but I would say our predominant vertical, what I went to school for, as well as what I've spent 14 years doing, is accounting and finance. I have the pleasure of meeting with CFOs on a regular basis. I've worked with hundreds of CFOs. I've placed hundreds of people at the staff accountant level, senior account level within FP&A up to Director of Finance, Investor Relations, Treasury. I've gotten the pleasure of getting to know a lot of different companies at different stages, and understanding some of the challenges that companies are facing when trying to hire an FP&A person. And so maybe for some of your listeners, I can offer a lens of, you know, what I'm seeing in the marketplace and how to position yourself as an FPA person or any trends that I'm seeing. Given the scope of our agency and who we interact with.
[00:05:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So yeah, I'm excited to jump into that. We'll get there here in a minute. So you did your bachelors in finance. How did you end up in recruiting?
[00:05:40] Guest: William Spengler: So while I was in college I actually worked for a venture capital firm. And I used to try to value companies for direct investment. I was very passionate. I was really into modeling. I really liked corporate valuations personally. But when I got out of school, my first job was a cost accountant within a gun manufacturer, and I was in a basement of a factory, and I didn't like cost accounting. So I actually got recruited by a recruiter at a staffing agency for a cost accountant job. And when I went in, they said, hey, you're a financial cost accountant. That is a good communicator. If you've ever thought about being a recruiter. And I thought it was a scam. I thought I didn't know that being a recruiter was really like a job. I ended up taking it. And here I am 14 years later, in the industry and doing my best to add value to as many people as possible.
[00:06:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Many how life works out. You never know where you'll end up, how one conversation changes everything.
[00:06:37] Guest: William Spengler: It's so true and I like it. Sometimes I miss it. I'm very analytical. Introvert. Even as a leader. And so, you know this stuff. I think we're 10 to 12 million. I do find myself often really getting it. I'm very hands on with our controller. I do a lot of things like 1 to 3 year planning. I'm always looking at actuals. So even though I'm a sales leader in a sense and a recruiter, I very much do accounting work with our controller, and I do. I still scratch my itch with planning and spreadsheets. And so I'm not your typical car salesman or a recruiter. Hopefully.
[00:07:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Well, and not a used car salesman. So that's good now, right?
[00:07:21] Guest: William Spengler: Only fresh.
[00:07:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Vehicles. What are they going to say? Do you, do you ever build a model these days? Do you do any of that on your ever value in a company still?
[00:07:30] Guest: William Spengler: No, I haven't done the valuation of a company in a while. Most of the modeling I do is around our own business.
[00:07:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's what I figured.
[00:07:40] Guest: William Spengler: Yep. albeit, I'd love to, you know, that would excite me. I also consult for a guy that runs a gym. He's the owner of a gym here in West Palm Beach, and I'll just plan his gym enterprise. It's a small, you know, business. But besides doing our business, I'll also consult and do a little bit of, financial planning for Jim Cook collaborative. Jim's here in West Palm Beach, Florida.
[00:08:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Cool. So you get a little bit of that as well. Nice.
[00:08:10] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah. It scratches my itch, you know.
[00:08:13] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Now I get it. I still like to get my hands dirty with the model, even though I do a lot of talking now and training and I don't do the hardcore modeling work, so I can relate.
[00:08:22] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah. I'm not doing anything too crazy. I'm. I'm just looking at, okay, you know, a lot of it is PNL. Over the next two years, we'll try to forecast our balance sheet, our cash flow position. But, we're not overly complicated, but it still is. All the way we're structured is a little complicated because we're a multi-entity staffing business that has to do with our internal partnership structure. But so like we do a consolidated plan.But, you know, I find that fun, and I find that challenging. That keeps me going versus just being a salesperson all the time, you know?
[00:09:00] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Get to close the door and be analytical every so often.
[00:09:03] Guest: William Spengler: Exactly. My introverted nature. So I hear you always.
[00:09:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Good to have those times when you kind of shut it off. So I'm curious as we talk about the recruiting job market, what are you seeing in the market today? Maybe just talk a little bit about what you're seeing particularly. Let's start with the employer's point of view. What are they looking for? You know what's kind of your overall take on the market?
[00:09:26] Guest: William Spengler: I think that the market really slowed a little bit during the election period, and we came into 2025, and there was a lot of optimism. All of a sudden it was we're hiring. And there was a big boost. And then obviously the tariffs came along. And there was a real pause in Q2 2025. There's that glimmer of optimism right now going into Q3 in 2025. But one of the things from my side is we're seeing accounting and finance. The last two years have really picked up in hiring, and that's been a vertical that's been very active. It's interesting. I've been saying that accountants have become like the new software engineers. If you remember a few years back, you know, 2019, 2020, software engineers almost walked on water. I used to have software engineers that have spreadsheets. They'd have 15 offers they didn't even have to interview. They'd have offers. Accountants are starting to become very important to companies these days, and there's so many recruiters that they don't know anything about accounting and finance, and they're just jumping into it because they heard people are hiring in accounting. You know, we're seeing a big push in accounting and finance hiring, which is positive.
[00:10:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So interesting on the accounting hiring. Then we'll get into more FP&A directly. Do you think a lot of that has to do with the shortage we've had in CPAs? Or it's just companies needing more because we keep hearing all this. Hey, we're going to automate, you know, more things in AI and you know, accountants are in trouble. A lot of that work will be automated. So what do you think's driving the last couple of years, the increase in, you know, companies asking for accounts.
[00:11:06] Guest: William Spengler: I think there's just a shortage of accounting and finance talent. I think for a lot of people it hasn't been a skillset that's been valued or paid properly. I believe in the past. So I think there were a lot of recent grads that were coming out, were going more like computer science technical because, you know, software development because they wanted to have a higher earning potential. But yeah, I think that there's just a shortage of talent, people getting out of accounting because they're maybe not getting into the six figures fast enough or they're not being treated. And that's starting to change now. We're seeing the opposite recently that a lot of developers, especially onshore in the United States. A lot of that's going offshore, and a lot of companies are starting to value just having good financial reporting, good planning. I don't know if I have the perfect answer, but I think companies are a lot more, holding on to cash, delaying capital investments right now, waiting for that right time with all the market uncertainty. So as the economy's been uncertain, I think a lot of companies have been wanting to really look at their pricing, really look at their expenses, really look at their risk exposure. And I think there's been a premium on internal accounting controls, planning, and pricing. So I don't know if that's the answer, but that's what we're seeing companies, double down on understanding their business more.
[00:12:37] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And you know, at the end of the day, there's no perfect answer. But that all makes sense, right? We're all kind of guessing a little bit. Anytime you're asking for something at a macro level of what's causing it all. Unless there's some huge event that's very easy to attribute it to. We're all guessing, as I like to say, you know, ask four economists, get five opinions.
[00:12:57] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah. That's good. I'm gonna steal that one.
[00:13:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Pretty much how it works. Feel free. I don't know where I am, I think I stole it from an econ professor back in college. So let's dive in a little more in the FP&A specifically. So when people come to you looking for FP&A roles, what are the hiring managers typically looking for? What do they want when they come to you and they say, hey, I need to hire an FP&A person for my team.
[00:13:22] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah, it depends on the level of the FP&A person, whether it's like an analyst.
[00:13:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Or kind of that analyst manager level, you know, not more than a few years of experience, call it anywhere from, you know, that 3 to 6, seven years experience kind of range analyst manager type position.
[00:13:39] Guest: William Spengler: They want a lot. Maybe that's a way to put it. They want the mood, especially if they're going to pay a recruiter like me. And I get it that we have to earn our feet. But I think it depends on the hiring manager. I'm going to answer this a few different ways. So there is a trend where, you know, people like to see the investment banking foundation just because they've had a scope of work across different industries or clients or valuations of different businesses, and then they go into one corporate role and they're usually really good modelers. So sometimes we get that investment banking desire. But other times and this is a little bit more rare. Some EPA leaders like to see that they spend time in accounting first and that they actually understand the balance sheet PNL and the statement of cash flows. And now they're becoming more analytical. That's a little bit more rare of the hiring manager that values that accounting foundation. But I think overall, what are we typically seeing companies ask for? It's really it's we keep getting you know Excel's a given. Right. Got to be good at Excel. But we're seeing this increased desire for power BI, Tableau and SQL skills. So there's this. It's almost like every company wants to get better dashboard reporting. But then they also want the effective communicator and storyteller and these intangible skills in a candidate. And sometimes that's hard because they want the technical, but then they want the person that can communicate effectively. And so I think the biggest intangible that just keeps coming up is can this person take the data and explain it to a non-financial person, like a business unit leader, in a way that they can actually take action on it and affect change in the operations? That's just it's almost like every time I speak to a CFO, that's that's the skill set. Can they communicate? Someone can take action on, on an operational level.
[00:15:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. So a lot to unpack there. I think I'll start, you know, interested in investment banking. I definitely know that's about. I get asked all the time how to get into FP&A, and most people are asking me or coming from the accounting route. And I usually tell people, look, there's probably 3 or 4 paths to probably cover 90% of people that go to it. You go to investment banking, then you go the corporate finance route and you end up in consulting, you go to FP & A and you do some strategic consulting. Depending on the companies you go from accounting slash audit, wheel bump, you know, whether it's accounting or audit. But you come from that accounting background in depth where you get someone who's kind of switching careers, they get an MBA and they get a corporate finance role. I think that covers probably 90, 95% of the people that get into FBA. And then you always have the odds out there. Somebody got the geography degree and somehow just ended up in an FP&A role.
[00:16:36] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah, no, you're spot on. There's a lot of public audit people that want to come out and go into FP&A and that's a tough transition. It's hard because they've been doing audit or assurance or like SEC reporting, but they realize like, hey, I don't really like this technical accounting stuff. I really want to be more analytical and FP&A and not a lot of companies will pay that premium without really having, you know, that experience. Really.
[00:17:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I think that's a common challenge is if you've done a few work, a few years of work, you've already upped that salary some, and then you're trying to make a switch and they're like, I'm paying a manager type level, but you have entry level experience in FP. And so there's 100% disconnect.
[00:17:24] Guest: William Spengler: Yep, 100% I think they would rather. And I hate to say this, but companies will tell us like I'd rather just get someone with one year of finance experience and a finance degree than hiring the CPA. That's a three year EY auditor that wants to get into FP&A and that's I'm sure that's a tough pill to swallow because, you know, when you're that person, you can do it. But companies, you know, it's interesting.
[00:17:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So your thought on bridging the gap. Are you seeing companies valuing? We're seeing a lot of certification programs come up for FP&A you know AFP has one called the F pack which is they also have one for Treasury kind of the equivalent like CPA, CMA a little bit, but very much FP&A focused. You know Wharton's created a certificate recently Corporate Finance Institute. Do you feel like managers recruiters in general from what you're seeing, really put much stock at this point into, you know, certifications beyond maybe a CPA, CMA, MBA? I've never had one telling me, hey, they need to have this or that certification, but what's your take on some of that education and how you see it as you talk to people?
[00:18:33] Guest: William Spengler: I still think the gold standard is to be the CPA. And I think the CMA May is not as valued as it probably should be. Companies we don't often see, people say, I really want to hire a CMA.
[00:18:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Not surprised to hear that.
[00:18:53] Guest: William Spengler: And we don't see a lot of companies that depend on the business, on the CFA. I think the problem with the CFA is you get into valuing stocks and bonds and, you know, and some of that stuff is just so companies are like, ah, you know, it's really we really want that corporate finance experience. How do you bridge the gap? I don't know if I have the perfect answer, but I think I would almost say getting certified in like power by Tableau or, you know, I don't know if there's any analytical certifications that prove you've taken this time to understand dashboard reporting. And if you don't have the experience, maybe demonstrating work you've done on the side that shows that, like, you've really tried to bridge this gap, and I think the right hiring manager should value that and I think value the accounting background. I don't understand why they wouldn't. Especially if you mix that with a technical dashboard, whether that's powered by a Tableau or SQL.
[00:19:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I think at a minimum, you know, everyone who works in FP&A needs to have a basic understanding of accounting. They need to understand it well enough to forecast. And so I definitely think there's value in somebody who has accounting. I think some discount is what they think and I've seen this, I've had hiring managers like this, like I had one who had the philosophy that accountants don't make good FP&A for people, I definitely wouldn't say that some are better than others. But his view is they're very much rule based, focused on tying everything out, process oriented. And it's like FP&A is very, much more gray. Your business is forward looking and kind of strategic. And, and I always just say to people, you have to understand that your personality makes you want to be more business oriented. If it's you, you can be great in FP&A and I've come from an accounting background. But don't do it just because you want to get more money and you don't know what the roll is about and, you know, yeah, you're laughing because I'm sure, sure you've seen it. Or there're people who want to be an FP&A because they think, hey, maybe I'll get paid more, but it's not really work they're going to enjoy. And so I don't think you need to understand what FP&A is and make sure that's a transition that makes sense for you, that's work you would enjoy doing.
[00:21:05] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah, absolutely. I think it depends on the person. It's funny to me sometimes and I don't fully understand this because I haven't had a career in accounting. I just spent a little bit of time as a cost accountant. But there do people do get so in the weeds on transactional accounting and just getting past data reported in a way where you understand a point in time. But sometimes those accountants struggle to understand how the business works, how it will scale, you know, margins, stepping back and understanding Ending the operations of a business. I know that's a loose term. Operations. But, like, I find that, like, I do understand what your past mentor is saying is like, yeah, why can't accountants step back and understand the business? Sometimes I, I don't personally get it, but.
[00:21:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And I've seen some that are great at it and some of the struggle. I had an accountant that I worked with in one business. I think you'll appreciate this. And he was great at accounting. I had an FP&A role open. I asked him any interested. He goes, no, that's just all funny math. I think I did that, and you're just making up numbers. I'm good. I like being able to tie everything out. It fit his personality. I'm like, that's fine. You do great. On the accounting side, if that's where you want to be. Works for me. But it was just kind of funny because he knew himself well enough. He did it once. He was like, that's not my personality. No, thanks.
[00:22:28] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah. I mean, maybe he's a perfectionist and wants to have accurate information. I think there's an art to saying, okay, what if our revenues doubled? How would our expenses go up? You know, do we have leverage? Do we have operational leverage on fixed versus variable costs? If we did this, what would that look like? I personally find that stuff more interesting than the perfectionist accounting of what happened in the past. But different strokes for different folks.
[00:22:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, exactly. You and I both. So I get it. You know, a couple other things you mentioned. I want to dig into two others. You mentioned technical skills. So you're seeing bigger requests. Not surprised. Power BI Tableau. You're seeing more on SQL as well.
[00:23:12] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah we.
[00:23:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Are.
[00:23:13] Guest: William Spengler: There's this like a financial systems analyst role I don't know if you've seen that out there.
[00:23:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah I have I definitely see yeah.
[00:23:19] Guest: William Spengler: In this business systems analysts where they want somebody that can communicate with it. And this is where I was laughing before when I said that they want a lot. Right. It's like, how do you be this technical person that can work with it and at least query to get to the data you need or, you know, be able to communicate with it. Of which data you need. But then how can you also be that intangible, high level thinker that's tough. That's a purple squirrel right there. In my opinion.
[00:23:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It is tough. You know, the ski did a couple of years of SQL and that was incredibly helpful in my career. So I'm a big fan. I played a little bit of that finance IT bridge analyst. My title was never technically systems analyst. But you know, I got involved in that a fair amount in my career. So I can definitely relate to exactly what you're talking about. And also, you know, it's really hard, as I like to say, if you can find someone that's great at all those, either you found a unicorn and odds are you can't afford it. You know, I mean, there's some that are good and they're well rounded, but sometimes the expectation is like, no, they're not going to be world-class in all of these 100%.
[00:24:30] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah. We have that discussion all the time. You know, I can name an example of an active search where we really have to, like, actually go down the I call them sometimes like the Christmas wish list, like your Christmas tree list. And it's like, okay, what's really important here? Because look, I, I know I have to earn my feed, but you know, we can't 3D print candidates. We can get as close as possible. And there there's, there's just restraints in the market, right. And hiring managers need to be flexible and really understand what they really need to hire here.
[00:25:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And I appreciate that it makes a lot of sense to ask them, okay if you have to rank this, what's really most important, give me the top three things. Let me focus on that. And then hopefully they you know hopefully they have some of the others and you can round out the rest.
[00:25:20] Guest: William Spengler: Exactly. Yep, yep. We try our best, you know, and it's a very competitive industry. So oftentimes we're competing out against 3 or 4 other agencies. But we do a really good job. We have a high fill ratio. So sure.
[00:25:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. I mean. Yeah. What? When they decide to go to others, it gets competitive because they're not finding the candidates by themselves.
[00:25:42] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yep. 100%. So I've used recruiting firms for hiring before. I have a lot, but I've used them a little bit. And I've, one of the companies I got hired at, they were using a recruiter when they hired me.
[00:25:57] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah. I feel like we're like attorneys. We're all, you know, nobody. Nobody wants to use us, really. But every now and again, a position is really critical. And it's a quality hire need or there's a need to fill the role. And I think that's where we can add a lot of value to justify our charge for our services. Sure. Yeah. I mean, nobody wants to pay the fees, but there are times when it just makes sense. No, I mean, I'm sure you get it all. Yeah, 100%. So.
[00:26:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: FP&A guy here today, I want to talk about the FP&A Guy ultimate course bundle. This bundle includes over ten hours of content recorded by Ron Monteiro and myself. Many templates and great lessons to make you a better FP&A professional. The content includes a business partner, how to manage tough conversations, build world-class relationships, and hold the business accountable. Includes modern Excel, which is a real game-changer for the way you'll work in Excel. Excel tables the gateway to modern Excel. Power Query is a game-changer for transforming your manual processes and loading data and then dynamic arrays. Next, we cover modeling design principles. In this course, we talk about the importance of designing models in a certain way and how important it is that you think about design. And last but not least, driving value through smart analysis how you can conduct data analysis to be a better professional. Go ahead and sign up for this bundle at https://www.thefpandaguy.com/. That's the https://www.thefpandaguy.com/. Use the code Podcast to save 25% and get started learning today.
[00:28:15] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah, that's a great question. I think what it is is that a lot of business unit leaders or general managers or division heads are coming up the sales or operations route. And they're I think they're very good operators.
[00:28:31] Guest: William Spengler: They're really good salespeople. They understand the business, but not everybody has the. You know, the PNL. The balance sheet understands the cash flow. Understanding and data is being accumulated and automated for good reporting. But if you're a blue person, you're a sales leader, and you get a report, it needs to be displayed in a way that it. How can I say this? When you're communicating with salespeople, sorry for salespeople, but if they're non-financial, you have to be able to explain it in a way that a third grader could understand. And, what you hand them has to be on target and relevant to what they're trying to solve in their business. And I think there's a growing frustration with companies where it's like, you know, they're good with SQL, they're good with all these dashboards. But, you know, this isn't like I don't understand what I do with this. You know, this is a bunch of fancy stuff. How do I drive my bottom line? How do I get more sales or retain revenue or what's happening? Why aren't I more profitable? Or why are my expenses going up? Which levers are under my control, and which levers should I be focused on to get that bottom line? It's a lot to unpack there, but it's the ability to interview a business unit leader, understand what they're trying to solve, understand how their division works, and then displaying and communicating information that's relevant that they can receive like a third grader, so they can take action.
[00:30:07] Guest: William Spengler: And I don't know if that's a tough thing to find.
[00:30:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So yeah, and I like the third grader thing. What. Yeah. Explain to me like I'm five, right. I think that's Reddit. There's a Reddit subreddit about, you know, explaining it to me like I'm a kindergartner or five. Easier said than for sure. So what do you look for? Let's say you're trying to fill a role. You're getting those resumes. You're trying to find that candidate. How do you get an idea for candidates good at really being able to, you know, take the data. Tell that story. Help the business implement the right to influence and kind of make that step from data reporter to helping them make actionable decisions. What do you look for when you know, that's kind of critical to the role? When you're seeing candidates, how do you determine they have that?
[00:30:55] Guest: William Spengler: There's some telltale signs,in the beginning when you interview somebody to just ask them about, like, explain to me how the business works. You know, what? What are your consolidated revenues? Tell me about your gross profit, how that's changed over time. You know, tell me about how you're who you compete with and what's the market position of your current company versus, you know, what else is out there.
[00:31:23] Guest: William Spengler: And you can quickly tell if somebody really understands their business or if they have no idea of the competitive landscape, they have no idea of what the revenues are. They don't understand the bottom line and what projects they're taking on to improve those things. That's usually pretty telling. Like if and if I say, hey, how big is the company? And they're like, I don't know. The bottom line was 1 million last year. And I'm like, how can you be an FP&A and not know the revenues of the business? You know?
[00:31:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Interesting is I hear you say all that. It gets back to something I hear all the time when I ask people, and I may be pre-empting you because this will be a future question, but ask about people. What's the number one soft skill people need? Or not so much skill? What's the number one thing people should do to be a better business partner? And I so often hear on the better business partners. Be curious. Curiosity. And you know, that person who's curious about the business will usually understand those revenue numbers and the growth patterns and all the things you mentioned. So it's just that reminder. Oh, I hear that again and again. If you want to be a better business partner, be curious. Even one went to the point of calling it humble curiosity. Don't be curious for the sake of hey, I want to look like I'm asking a lot of questions and I'm smarter than you. But really, to learn that humble curiosity and that's what I use now is probably one of my favorites. And I listed it as one of the number one skills you need because it really shows through. It's so it's interesting as I hear you talk from the recruiter's side, and I kind of put together what I've heard from all these different guests and how it all fits together.
[00:33:01] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah, yeah. I like the humble curiosity. You know, if you're new to the company and you get to the answer and then you go meet a big leader and you say you need to do this, this and this, well, you're creating friction right off the bat, you know, why not seek to understand and interview and maybe you might learn something that you don't. You know, the numbers might tell you you need to do this, but you don't necessarily understand the obstacles or the things that they're running into. So be curious to first seek to understand, because the numbers aren't going to tell you everything. There could be bottlenecks that you're unaware of because you've never actually been in that industry, right? So you come in hard-charging as the new fee and a guy, you're actually not going to be effective for the company. Really. You want to earn their trust. Seek to understand. And that's how you can be more effective to implement change.
[00:33:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Right. I heard someone say, if they tell you they want you to come in and ruffle feathers and make a bunch of changes, they're lying. And I kind of laugh in the sense of, no, they want you to come in and listen and then implement the changes. Like they want you coming on day one. Say, here's how we're going to do things like, let's see how that works. So great there. The listening and learning and understanding things.
[00:34:24] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah, 100% I think I think sometimes it depends on the hiring leader, but there's sometimes a premium on the person that actually has the corporate finance background and is a little bit more humble. Worked in different divisions, then got to the corporate finance side, understanding how to piece it all together versus the Ivy League NBA. Well, you know investment banking. And they come in thinking their stuff doesn't stink. That can be a little annoying for certain companies. You know,
[00:34:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It can definitely be a little offputting. I had a guy I asked the question, I ask everybody the question of where would they rate themselves in Excel on a 1 to 10? And then I follow up and explain why you gave the rating you did, because that helps me understand how they think about it. And if they're learning and kind of dig into it. I asked this one guy where he rated himself and he's like, I'm a ten.
[00:35:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And I asked Lane. And he went on about how he could do everything. I'm like, I know a lot about Excel. I'm Microsoft MVP now, so I know my stuff. Am I an expert? No. But am I good? Yes. And so I started asking myself to know about this formula. No. Do you know about this formula? No. Do you know about this? No. Do I change your answer? Fine. I'm a nine, like. All right. The hiring of this guy?
[00:35:38] Guest: William Spengler: Yeah. I think the worst thing that you can do is, in my opinion, is to answer the Excel question. Just say, well, I can pivot tables and lookup. That's like the canned industry answer, right? Pivot tables and Vlookup, we have somehow managed to say what's your favorite Excel formula? Like it'd be nice if somebody actually like us can concentrate or h look up. Even if you said h lookup instead of Vlookup. It's like that's just like the canned lookup and pivot and pivot tables. It's like, no, go a little deeper. There's got to be more to that that you've learned. And if that's your answer, maybe you're not that good. You know.
[00:36:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: No, I hear you the can one I'm advanced because I know pivot tables and vlookup I'm a salesperson And I know, the lookups and pivot tables. You know, it's. What do you think? What is the biggest mistake? You know, we have a lot of people who listen to the show that are looking for work or wanting to get into FP&A.
[00:36:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What's the biggest mistake? You see the candidates?
[00:36:39] Guest: William Spengler: The biggest mistake that I see the candidates make is going into FP&A.
[00:36:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, well, just kind of in that job process, they're looking for jobs in FP&A. What do you see as some of the common mistakes they're making you think?
[00:36:52] Guest: William Spengler: I think it's just reaching out to hiring managers directly and explaining to them that you actually researched the company, you understand what their business does, and you're able to give relevant information on why you think you're a good fit. I think a lot of times people kick back, they wait for HR to call. They get lost in the HR black hole. They trust that this AI bot that's having you applied everything is going to actually go to a junior HR generalist that's going to actually call you. I think the best thing you could do is see a posting. Find it. Find out who the CFO or the VP of finances at the company, and reach out and have a relevant message that demonstrates you understand their business or business model, and you have understanding of potential problems. Don't assume they're problems, but you have relevant experience solving types of problems, and you hope to have the opportunity to talk to them. So I think it's that personal touch with relevant messaging. I think a lot of people are kicking back, trusting.
[00:37:57] Guest: William Spengler: I'm trusting HR like it's just too noisy out there.
[00:38:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So basically, I think the advice I'm hearing is go beyond the numbers game. Don't just apply to everything. Make yourself relevant. Reach out. Talk to people. Try to let them know why you're a good candidate, why you've done your homework, and that you'd love to speak with them. Amazing how often I connect networking to some at some level.
[00:38:22] Guest: William Spengler: It does. You know, even in the agency world, like when I got, I would say recruiters started scraping data, doing mass outreaches and starting to do a lot of AI tools, about 2 or 3, maybe four years ago. And that was like this huge competitive advantage to, you know, from the people that weren't adopting the technology. But now in this industry, it's really back to the we call old school. Can you actually develop a real authentic relationship and actually not going to be more targeted and actually developing a relationship gets ten times results. Because then all this automated emailing I think people are just tired of it's just too much noise. They're tired of being dripped on and you know, that's not punching through anymore.
[00:39:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It's an interesting kind of speech. So how do you see AI changing your recruiting hiring process? As we went forward, we had that period where all sudden everything was being blocked. You had to put all the key I words to get through the bots and different things. And now you say you're seeing a little bit more of that personal touch again, which should always be there in my opinion. I'm sure you would agree as an agency and a recruiter. But, you know, kind of how do you see a changing recruiting and hiring process as we move forward? Kind of how do you see that balance of AI with I think it's AI with humans. At least that's how I see it.
[00:39:49] Guest: William Spengler: I think AI is being used right now in a few different ways in recruiting. One is to get a transcript of the interview, to get better notes, to make sure you gleaned all the information and remembered all the information of that actual interview. And so there's a lot of like transcription AI to then auto match to certain jobs. So we are seeing AI being able to go comb through a lot of databases, a huge database and multiple databases faster to auto match candidates to jobs. So it's taking a lot of that front end sourcing work. And I think the other big area is just access to data. There's so much AI. Now that is getting better at finding cell phone data, personal mobile data, work phone data. As far as like I from an end to end process, there are companies coming out that are doing AI chat like their AI agents that actually the AI does the interview.
[00:40:54] Guest: William Spengler: Ai is really coming for the recruiter in HR job, but I don't think it's quite there yet. Where you have a fully AI automated interview process, there still has to be a human connecting in real time, through that process, but they're certainly trying. Yeah, interesting. I haven't done any research there, but I'm not surprised to see the AI doing the interview. I think right now it would be pretty painful. I'm sure it's getting better and better rapidly, but so much of it is human touch and connecting. You want to hire someone you connect with. And so I could see in some ways reducing bias, but it's going to create its own set of problems too. Yeah. And I think they say reducing bias, but there's sometimes bias in those things as well. So I won't go down that.
[00:41:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right I agree. I mean we've all seen AI to certain degrees or biases. Like you know we're coming up on the 4th of July when they asked us to show pictures of the Founding Fathers. 30% were minorities, and or women. And it's like, Yeah, you're totally wrong here.
[00:42:06] Guest: William Spengler: I get what you're saying. I don't want to touch that one with a ten foot pole, but I'm not. I'm right there.
[00:42:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, and I'm talking like, you know, the Founding fathers like, for, like, very clear what they were versus the images you're generating, I get what they're trying to do, but it's just, you know, that's what I mean.
[00:42:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: There's bias both in all kinds of different ways, and they're trying to address them. So we've got one there so we don't get ourselves in trouble. Alrighty. Moving on. FP&A. So these are some standard questions we ask every guest. What do you think is the number one technical skill that someone in FP&A needs to master?
[00:42:45] Guest: William Spengler: I think it's being able to do strong variance analysis, actual to budget, actual to forecasts in year to date. I don't know if that's technically a technical skill, but I think we'll count it. But I would say the hottest one is just right now we're just seeing all over the place power BI or Tableau. I think that's sticking out. Yeah. So two things there. Variance commentary and basically business intelligence. Correct. Tableau power BI. What about software human skill? Software human skill. I, I think it's, the ability to effectively communicate back to the humble curiosity and demonstrating an understanding of the business model.
[00:43:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What is the number one thing you would tell people that would help improve their chances during the job search? Or number one thing they should really be focusing on?
[00:43:38] Guest: William Spengler: I think it's the interpersonal connection to the hiring manager directly and being able to have a really relevant example, or industry example or business problem example that speaks to the actual hiring manager.
[00:43:54] Guest: William Spengler: I think it's that personal touch and not sitting back and waiting. That's the best advice I could give. So I like that. All right. This is the one. I'm curious to see what you say. I know you like to occasionally get into Excel. Do you have a favorite feature or formula in Excel? Yep. Oh, you put me on the spot. And now I don't want to give the answer to pivot tables and Vlookup, even tables in Vlookup. Now I really like to play with complicated ifs in IFS and like a lot of conditional formatting as well. Based on, you know, different rules. I'm a beginner to intermediate person at this point, but I like complicated F functions. To be honest, I like it because that works. Alright, now we're going to get to know you a little bit well beyond. Okay? Go ahead and find a favorite hobby. I played guitar until I had three kids, so I was a big musician. And that's the picture I bought here. But ever since I had kids I don't blame my wife. But you know, if you have kids, you have to be able to help. If you're practicing an instrument for two hours, you know you're just looking for a fight with your wife. But that's my favorite, my favorite hobby. I really spend my life focused on the business and then taking care of my family.
[00:45:22] Guest: William Spengler: And I try to get exercise in yoga, and when I can, we'll add that part. I don't blame my wife for covering the episode. That's good. Yeah. See how that goes for you. All right. If you could have any person's job in the world for one week, who's job and why? I don't know if you've heard of, like, RPA, robotic process automation and people, people that look at workflow automation within a company. I've been very interested in that. So I don't have the skill set to do it. But like I would love to work with, I would love to shadow or be the lead RPA developer for process improvement, and actually had the technical skills to do end to end workflow automation. That's just something that I wish I knew how to do. It might be something to go back to school for at a later date. Cool. That'd be. That'd be fun. Robotic process automation, I like it.
[00:46:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, so these are some out there type questions I need to have a little bit of fun here. First one, if you had a theme song playing every time you entered a room, what would the song be?
[00:46:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It would be Eminence Front by the Who. So I don't know if you ever heard that one, but it's a very kickback. Great song by The Who. It's just got a good vibe. It's got a confident vibe, and it embodies the vibe I try to stay in.
[00:46:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So am I amplifying that one up on the computer and YouTube after we're done here and give it a listen? It's been a while. I have listened to anything by The Who. All right, if aliens landed tomorrow, what's the first snack you're going to offer them?
[00:47:00] Guest: William Spengler: Well, are they already here because. Aren't they already here? I'm just kidding. The first.
[00:47:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: We're not going to go. They're kind of like the bias. We're still.
[00:47:07] Guest: William Spengler: We won't. We won't touch that one. I give them my favorite candy. It'd be the giant Chewy Sweethearts. I wouldn't give them, like, cyanide or anything. I, you know, I, I try to make. If they actually landed here, I'd give them my favorite candy because I want to get on their good side. I love it.
[00:47:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Alrighty. kind of last question before we finish here. If you could offer any last advice to our listeners that would help them futureproof their careers? What do you think they should be doing?
[00:47:41] Guest: William Spengler: I know we've heard this throughout the thing, but it's continuous networking when even when you're not looking, can you find financial organizations or events where you could, you know, FBI Financial Executives International? Can you put it into your part of your life? You should always be part of some kind of local CFO network or controller network where you're just getting to know the other industries or getting engaged.
[00:48:08] Guest: William Spengler: There's one thing that we talk about is, is there are certain candidates that don't have to apply for jobs. It's kind of like if you think about LeBron James, if LeBron James was going to switch. Well, he's getting older now. But if LeBron James was going to just switch to another team, he doesn't need to interview. He already knows the whole league. He's got his options. So I think if you're an FP&A or a finance manager in a market that if you're constantly networking, you're going to have your choice of where to go, you're going to be able to tap people once you're available, you're just more in the know. Right? And then all of a sudden they'll push you through their HR process and you can circumvent people like me that do a lot of arm twisting and getting through HR. You know, so if you can constantly network or try to execute every quarter on some kind of networking event, I think you'll be futureproof for your career. You will have stability with your community. I love it. So network. Build those relationships. Allow yourself to have those connections. So when you need them, call on them.
[00:49:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. If someone wants to learn more about you or potentially get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
[00:49:21] Guest: William Spengler: I think LinkedIn is great. I check it like a hawk. I'm on it every day.
[00:49:25] Guest: William Spengler: But you can also go to WW Frederick Fox.com. Take a look at our firm. We've got 50 phenomenal recruiters that have been in the space for a long time. Our team is, I think, excellent. And so you can find us at Fox.com or you can find me on LinkedIn. If you message me on LinkedIn, it can even be 11:00 at night. I'm likely to respond. And if not, your eye bot will respond, right? Right. That's right. Or I'll be in the doghouse with my wife to respond. That's a good note to end it on before we get ourselves in any more trouble. No.
[00:50:00] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you for joining me, Will. I really enjoyed chatting with you, and thanks for sharing some thoughts on the market and just getting hired for free and we have a lot of people always looking for jobs. I get people reaching out to me all the time, so I like to have guests that can talk from there. What they're seeing, they're actually in the trenches of hiring every day. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
[00:50:21] Guest: William Spengler: You're welcome Paul. And if anyone's listening and looking, I'm happy to try to help you.
[00:50:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz, and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on earmark and contact me the show host for further details.