How the FPAC Certification Helps FP&A Professionals Get Promoted and Earn Strategic Credibility

Written By Paul Barnhurst

In this special episode of FP&A Tomorrow, host Paul Barnhurst (aka The FP&A Guy) welcomes Cassie McCombs, Marcus Gadson, and Mario Vasquez. Together, they share their experiences with the Certified Corporate FP&A Professional (FPAC) credential from the Association for Financial Professionals (AFP). The guests discuss how earning the FPAC has shaped their careers, the impact it’s had on their professional growth, and why this certification is becoming an essential asset for finance professionals.

Cassie is the Vice President of FP&A at Ultradent Products, a dental manufacturing company, where she played a key role in building the company’s first FP&A team from the ground up. Marcus serves as the Senior Finance Director at Wellpath, a healthcare company, where he is passionate about making finance accessible across all departments. Mario is the Senior Director of Finance at E.W. Scripps Company, brings over 25 years of experience in FP&A. He was part of the first cohort to earn the credential and shares valuable insights on how the certification helped him stand out and advance in his career.

Expect to Learn:

  • The impact of continuing education on staying up-to-date in the field of FP&A.

  • The value of the credential and how it can impact your career in FP&A.

  • Key insights on how to prepare for the exam and tips for success.

  • The importance of continuous learning and staying updated in the financial industry.

  • The role of FP&A in driving business strategy and decision-making.


Here are a few quotes from the episode:

  • "Data is not a four-letter word. It's essential to understanding and improving the business." - Cassie McCombs

  • "If you’re not learning, you're going backward. The FPAC credential helps you stay on top of industry trends." - Mario Vasquez

  • "Collaborating with non-finance teams is essential for making an impact as a finance leader." - Marcus Gadson

Cassie, Marcus, and Mario shared valuable perspectives on the impact of the FPAC credential on their careers and the financial planning and analysis profession. Their advice on the importance of continuous learning, collaboration across departments, and staying adaptable in an ever-evolving industry provides actionable steps for finance professionals seeking to advance their skills and make a greater impact within their organizations. The experiences and wisdom shared in this episode are invaluable for anyone looking to navigate the complexities of FP&A and drive long-term business success.

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In Today’s Episode
[01:34] - Introduction of Episode
[02:35] - Meet the Guests: Cassie, Marcus, and Mario
[04:30] - What Makes Great FP&A?
[07:21] - The Decision to Get Certified
[10:13] - Other Credentials Considered
[13:19] - Career Impact of the FPAC
[19:19] - Study Approaches & Exam Tips
[27:06] - Continuing Education with AFP
[29:23] - Long-Term Career Impact
[41:41] - Top FP&A Skills
[46:36] - Fun Questions with the Guests

Full Show Transcript

[00:01:34-00:01:37] Hello everyone! Welcome to FP&A tomorrow, where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka the FP&A Guy, and I'll be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A. Each week we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. This week, we're in for a real treat as we have a special episode where we're going to talk about the  AFP program, and I have three guests with me. Mario, welcome to the show.

[00:02:18] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: Thanks. Great to be here.


[00:02:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Marcus, welcome.


[00:02:21] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Thanks for having me.


[00:02:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, really excited to have you. And then we have Cassie.


[00:02:25] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Thank you. I'm excited to be here.


[00:02:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Excited to have you in. Cassie's in my neighborhood, so that's always fun to have someone from Utah. Alright, so what I'm going to do is I'm just going to give each of you a minute to introduce yourselves versus me reading a bio. Since we have three guests, I think people will prefer that versus me reading for five minutes. So why don't we start with you, Cassie? Could you just take a minute and introduce yourself to the audience?


[00:02:48] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Yes. My name is Cassie McCombs. I am the vice president of FP&A at a local company here in Utah where We ultradent products. We are a dental manufacturer and we also sell directly in the US and then through distribution internationally. I have a small team of FP&A dynamite folks, and we were actually the first FP&A team here at Ultradent. So we stood this program up from the beginning. So lots of fun.


[00:03:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Cool. Well thank you Kasey. Marcus, why don't we go to you next?


[00:03:20] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Hey, Paul. Thanks for having me. As I said earlier, Marcus Gadson, senior finance director for Wellpath, we're a correctional healthcare company based out of Nashville, Tennessee. I'm actually born and raised in the Atlanta area and got my finance degree from Florida State. So after a couple of stints at a few different companies, I ended up finding my way into healthcare back in 2013, 2015, actually. I've been riding that train ever since and happy to be here to discuss FP&A   and the way that we can make an impact within our organizations.


[00:03:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. Thank you. Mario.


[00:03:53] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: Mario Vazquez. I am a senior director of finance at the E.W. Scripps Company, where we do broadcast television with over 60 television stations that are mostly Big Four affiliates, and we have a networks division with Ion Television being the bread and butter of that side of the business. I have over 25 years of FP&A   experience, and it was in that first group with getting this certification. So happy to talk about it.


[00:04:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Excited. Thank you Mario. All right. So before we jump into the certification this is a question we start every episode with Mario. We're going to let you get the question. And then we'll have Kasey and Marcus add some thoughts to it. From your opinion, what does great FP&A   look like? If you're looking at great FP&A  , what are you seeing?


[00:04:35] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: What I think about when I hear that question is the FP&A   maturity model that AFP put out. They recently refreshed it in November 2024. I was lucky enough to be able to lead the team from North America that contributed to that. There was also a team from the Middle East and Africa that contributed to it. So we break it down to like three different things. That's why FP & A  even exist. So that's our mission. What are we actually doing? That's going to be our financial processes. And then how do you actually do it. So you're going to break it down to your technology and data and your personnel. Right. So great FP&A  to me delivers actionable intelligence that helps to drive that long term value creation for your business. And you have to have the right financial processes in place with the right technology, clean, reliable data, and most importantly, probably having an effective and agile team. So you have to make sure you have the right personnel on your team to deliver the value and actionable insights.


[00:05:34] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. You said clean data. There is such a thing.


[00:05:36] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: There is. It's hard to do, but it is possible.


[00:05:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, Cathy, anything you would add to that? Mario said there.


[00:05:44] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more. We actually used that maturity model. Our team used that maturity model to build our modernization plan and really used it as a foundation to design our next ten years in the company. We heavily rely on data, and it really is. I have a sticker on my desk that says data is not a four letter word. So, you know, that really is something that we really focus on and we really champion it around the building, making sure people understand that we're relying on this and taking that and really making it user friendly. So that kind of the entry for folks to get in and use this data and analyze it is easy. We're trying to kind of reduce that barrier to entry for our customers and the entire company to be able to utilize that and make decisions and put it in their hands.


[00:06:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. Thank you. Appreciate that answer. Marcus. Anything you'd like to add there?


[00:06:40] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: I really don't have much to add. They pretty much called it out from home plate the first, second, third and back to home plate. I'll just add on that when we talk about informing different departments regarding decision making and value creation. I'll just add that I think great FP&A   helps enhance the understanding of the past and the present, so that you can be where you want to be in the future. That's my only addition to that.


[00:07:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you. I appreciate it. And I can tell who has baseball on their mind. The baseball analogy.


[00:07:06] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Yeah. My son has a game on Saturday, so I'm in baseball mode.


[00:07:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I got basketball on my mind. We're getting ready for March Madness next week. So by the time people listen to this, it will be over. But details. All right. So I want to ask each of you and we'll start this question with Marcus here. What was your main reason for earning the Certified corporate FP&A   professional? The from AFP. Like what motivated you to earn it?


[00:07:34] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Yeah, so I earned my credential back in 2020. And I learned that as a finance leader, I wanted to have more productive dialog with Non-finance team members, because I reached a point where I realized that my ability to impact the organization is going to be tied to my ability to effectively collaborate with members of different departments. And so there wasn't at the time, from my vantage point, there wasn't any other credible organization that had put time into researching how FP&A  impacts an organization, the way the Association for Finance Professionals had done so. And based on that, I just saw them as the most credible organization to get an FP&A  related credential.


[00:08:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Thank you. I appreciate that. Cassy, why don't we go to you next?


[00:08:19] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Yeah. From my perspective, my CFO was one of the very first people to take this credential. He's had a long standing relationship with AFP. And since we were designing this team from the ground up, we really wanted to leverage the program and really kind of design what we wanted this to look like for our company. So actually every member of my team, it's a focus of ours to get this credential. Most of them have it. Um, we have a couple of new folks that are getting ready to join the program, but we just felt like it was really important to make sure that we really were engaged and understood what was out there, and how we could be the very best at this function and serve the company.


[00:09:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love that. Thank you for sharing. Mario, what about you? I know I think you were the first cohort, if I remember right.


[00:09:09] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: Yes, I was part of the beta test group. So in that very first group, we sat for the exam in Q1 2014. So going back into 2013, you know, I'd already been working in corporate FP&A  for over ten years. I had been thinking for years I needed to get some sort of certification, wasn't sure which one to get, and then an old boss reached out to me and said, you know, hey, have you heard of this company? Afp they're coming out with a new certification for corporate FP&A , and you were the first person I thought of. So he actually got me in touch with someone there. Uh, you know, that's what started my relationship with them and was able to get in on that very first group to get the exam. You know, I just wanted something to help me stand out from all of my peers. I felt like everyone I worked with always had an MBA. I already had that. So it was just like, what else can I do to help me stand out and differentiate myself? So that was the first reason why I decided to get it.


[00:10:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Thank you. And so we have actually four people on the call who have all earned it. I did mine at 23. Not very often. I get all my guests to have it. So kind of fun. Well, let's start here. Were there any other programs that you looked at? Mario, you mentioned MBA. You looked at wanting to do something, you know, before you settled on AFP. Were there other things you were considering?


[00:10:23] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: So I looked at pretty much everything I could find, but CPA is the only one that I really seriously considered. But every time I was trying to decide to do it, I'm like, I'm not an accountant. I've never worked in accounting. I really don't need it has nothing to do with what I actually do day in and day out, which is part of the reason why, when I heard about a corporation for certification. I'm like, that's exactly what I do. But, you know CFA. Nope. Cma. Nope. I'm like, those are not what I do. So. Looked at them, but decided not to go down that path. So it was a quick and easy decision when I learned about the fact.


[00:10:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Makes a lot of sense. I had looked at a CPA at one point and I'm like, I just really don't see myself doing accounting. I took level one of the CFA and said, I'm not going to use level two and three. This is a ton of studying. I'll pass. I did that about the time. You probably took your first, uh, the test ten years ago. So, Cassie, how about you? Were there other programs you looked at, or was it you mentioned your CFO. So because it was kind of always AFP for you?


[00:11:25] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Yeah. I'm similar to Marcus in that a CPA just doesn't seem to serve what I'm doing day in and day out, maybe, other than to make it so that I can negotiate better with the accounting team. Um, but the was really what I felt like would serve us well and serve the company well. Serve myself well because really it is bridging that gap and trying to get people to understand the numbers behind it without, you know, like all the accruals and without all of the complexity of regular everyday accounting. So there wasn't really anything that was in competition.


[00:12:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And it sounds that similar to your situation. Right, Marcus, as you look, there really wasn't anything else out there.


[00:12:05] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: No, not really. And I'm someone who has the CFA that you mentioned earlier, and I got familiar with AFP because I got the CTP credential. But the thing about those credentials, while they are amazing and they are well renowned to a certain degree, they present finance as a back office function. And as I move up in my career trying to make an impact, and I noticed that the FP&A   field and theFP&A credentials in particular, treated finance as kind of the right hand of the decision maker, not necessarily as a back office function. And so knowing where I want to go, knowing the impact that I wanted to make and how I wanted my team to operate. I thought that the feedback was amazing and I didn't see anything else that was like that.


[00:12:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, no. And I think five years ago there wasn't much, you know, we have several that have cropped up in the last few years. But even with that, you know, AFP is the only one that's a credentialed program for like a CPA. And with that comes the joy of continuing education. I see a few smiles. I guess I have to do it. So before we get into the continuation of the credentials, I do want to ask one more question. Kind of the program. I'd love to know for each of you what's maybe been the biggest help from having that credential in your career. So is there one area that's really helped you or something that stood out? And why don't we go with you, Marcus first on this one.


[00:13:26] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Yeah. How it's helped. What has helped me just be a better ally for different departments. The thing that comes to mind is, I know there's a section in part two of the program regarding modeling and data integrity and it just things like that, those type of lessons, those type of notes and helps me be a better ally to the IT team or the business intelligence team. And the section that they had on statistics and trends helped me become a better ally for, of course, the operations team and other finance peers. And I just think it just has those key notes that we may know it or subconsciously we may know it, but it brings it to the forefront. And I kind of gave me a new perspective, a renewed perspective, if you will, on how to operate as a finance professional and be more collaborative with different teams.


[00:14:13] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, it sounds like, you know, a couple things I've heard as you've been talking. One, you really felt the collaborative nature of it helped that focus on being, you know, value creators versus just a back office function really stuck out to you with the fact. Is that a fair assessment?


[00:14:28] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Yes it did, yes it did. I've had other finance related jobs where the only people I speak with are finance team members, and that's great. But I want a little bit more. I wanted a little bit more range with who I touch and who I can impact. And the FP&A field in general forces you to make an impact and be aware of other teams outside of your own.


[00:14:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So, Cassy, how has having the certification helped you in your career? What's been some of the benefits you've seen?


[00:14:57] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Yeah, some of them are actually when you were kind of cringing before about the CPE. I love the CPE. I love the opportunity to really kind of go to those conferences and network. We designed a recent change that we made based off of doing a training and hearing from IBM and some of the things that they were doing. So I love the network. I love being able to talk to other people and ask them, like, how are you handling this challenge? Or how do you see this working? Like the opportunity to be here with you today? One of the things that my team wants to do is we would love to do like a podcast for our executive team, because if I was them, I would be so sick of reading my emails that are lengthly that have this all of these details, and I would love to find a way to to deliver them information in a way that is more entertaining and easier than reading or looking at a slide deck. I, I had the opportunity to go to breakfast with someone and they said, executives have so many slide decks, and then once they get full, they just can't look at one more slide deck. So I love creativity. I love the group of people. And just having that, the opportunity to network and see how others are, are handling the same situations that we're faced with.


[00:16:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. When I worked at Amex, we called it death by PowerPoint.


[00:16:13] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Yes.


[00:16:13] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Card decks.


[00:16:15] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Yeah, it was actually the CFO from American Express that told me that. He told me your brain hits a limit on how many PowerPoints you can have.


[00:16:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Do you remember the name? Which was that?


[00:16:25] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: I'm going to murder his last name. Gary Crichton. Crichton.


[00:16:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Okay. Yeah. He was okay. Yeah, he was the one. I think he left, Right. Been there a few years. He left. He was a CFO also at a I think he left right about as I got there at a chase for a while as well. Yeah, I think chase after American Express. I know who you're talking about.


[00:16:45] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Yeah. Yeah. Another Utah local.


[00:16:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Mario, how about you?


[00:16:50] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: So when I decided to try go for the certification, I didn't tell anyone at work. It was a surprise to everyone. Uh, even after I took the test, you know, now when people take the test, they find out immediately if you passed or not. I had to wait three months to find out if I passed or not. So as soon as I found out I passed, I went. I told my boss, I told HR, I told all my peers at work. I was so excited about it, and they were all very impressed that I took the initiative to go pursue this on my own. So I think they took that as, hey, let's see if there's something else we can give Mario. Like I started seeing, they were giving me more special projects and different things. And then about a year and a half later, I actually got a promotion. So I think it really helped me to get there. I think a lot of times when people get something, whether it's an MBA or a certification, they think that they should get the promotion right away. And of course, I would have loved that. But, you know, those things take time. There's not money in the budget to immediately do it. So about a year and a half later, getting that promotion, I was I was pretty happy with that.


[00:17:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And I mean, I agree, everybody wants a promotion right away. But there's two things. One, certification doesn't mean you're doing better work per se. It does show initiative. But and it helps you stand out. But then you combine that with, hey, I'm doing good in the job. I'm continuing to be proactive and it will happen if there's that opportunity. And if not, it will look good as you go to another company. But yeah, I think sometimes we have this idea that I'm owed a promotion because I've done this and not not the way the world works, at least for most of us. I see Marcus over there smiling on that one.


[00:18:21] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Absolutely. I felt that way when I got my CTP. I said I should get it promoted right now. The moment I got my CFA, I thought I should get promoted within the next month. It just doesn't happen like that. Ironically for me when I got the credential in September of 2020. And so I did get promoted a year later. So, you know, there was some lag there. But, uh, going through the program for me, like I said earlier, helped give me a better foundation, uh, to be a stronger ally for different departments and be more collaborative. I remember the section on modeling and data integrity that helped me become a stronger ally to the business intelligence team and the information technology team, and thinking about the sections that they have on statistics and trend analysis helped me become kind of the key source of information and insights for the operational leaders and other members of the finance department. So it's been very helpful for me. Uh, it didn't give me the immediate promotion, but it did come later. And it's allowed me to be more productive and more impactful within my space.


[00:19:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I would like to ask each of you, uh, kind of question that wasn't on there, but just how much time did you roughly spend preparing for the test? Like how much time did it take? You would just be curious to kind of get a general idea. And Mario, since you're the the furthest one back, we'll ask you first. See if you remember. 


[00:19:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: FP&A Guy here today. I'm super excited to talk to you about the FP&A  Hub community, the online community that you can go to to get answers. Early in my career, I wish I had a place I could have went to where I didn't have to talk to somebody in the company, go to my boss again, or Google that I knew I could get answers from. That's what you can get at the FP&A hub. You can make friends, you can learn from others, you can attend events, put discussions and posts out there. You don't have to worry about all the selling and cheat sheets and stuff you get on LinkedIn. This is real conversations by real FP&A professionals. We have over 1100 people in the community and it's absolutely free. That's the best thing. So please go ahead and join today  thefpahub.com. You can join for free at thefpahub.com and the FP&A Guy look forward to seeing you in this free community. Join today!


[00:20:41] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: So I almost don't like answering that question because, uh, I went into it with a different mindset. I said I already have been working in this field for over ten years. If I can't pass it, I should go find a new career. So I didn't study what I did. I said, if they're going to get me, it's going to like if I don't pass, it's going to be on terminology. So I bought the study materials and I flipped through them looking at terminology the day of the exam. So I went and arrived like an hour or two early in the parking lot and kind of flipped through and looked at terminology to get the definitions down. But I like what you actually do day to day. I'm like, that's what I do. So I should already know it. So that's where I was like, you know, I felt like I shouldn't have to. And luckily I did pass.


[00:21:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So yeah, I'm going to tell our audience if you're listening, I don't recommend the Mario approach, but if it works for you, great.


[00:21:32] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: Well, and I'll also say like the materials it was when I did it, it was a bunch of books stacked together. It was really, really thick, about three inches. And I was just like, I don't want to read all of that. And now, though, I got to actually see the preview of before they put it out, the new study materials. It's amazing. I actually said I just want access to it because it's awesome. It's an awesome reference tool. You can just go look up something really quickly. And the way it works is amazing. So if it was today, I probably would actually do it because I think the interface, the actual product they have that they're offering is amazing.


[00:22:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So yeah, I've previewed it as well. They asked me to give some feedback, I've seen it and I'm actually getting ready in April. I'll be, uh, teaching people to take the feedback. So I'm working out in the Middle East organization. There will be remote. So I just got the material this week to prepare to be an instructor for it, so that will be different. So how about you, Cassie?


[00:22:31] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: I had a completely different experience.


[00:22:33] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I had a feeling by your reaction to his, uh, I didn't study at all.


[00:22:39] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: When he said that, I was like, what? What are you talking about? So I studied a lot.


[00:22:45] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: So I took probably three months, and I studied in the evenings for the first part, and I studied every piece of it, took all of the quizzes. I spent a lot of time and a lot of our team did it together. So it was kind of like a community event. We got to commiserate together. And then for the second part, I'm just going to be super honest with you. And I did not pass the second part on the first time I made a fatal error in the second piece of it, I knew every piece of the material perfectly. I had bad strategy and I did not practice with that. I'm sorry. Afp. That stupid Excel tool. So that tool is awful. And I did not practice with their version of that tool. And it just wrecked me like from a time perspective. So I was just destroyed on time. And I immediately got the results, which you didn't get this, Mario, but I immediately got the results. And then I got to sit in my car and cry for just a second and be like, oh, that is so sad. I get to do this again.


[00:23:53] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: And then I went back and did it again, and I practiced with the Excel tools. So I think, you know, I had I knew the answer to every single question. I just wasn't fast enough with that tool in order to be able to do it. And so I did it. And then I passed it the second time. But man, it was, it was, it was rough. And I took it at the end of the window. So then I had to wait for the next window to open, which was incredibly painful. But I did love the study materials and I actually kept all of the like, screenshots and stuff because from a reference perspective, I thought it was amazing. In the future, when I maybe wanted to use one of those models or use something like that, I kept it all so that I could kind of remember how I'd maybe want to look at something. So I wish I could have passed it without studying. I don't know how you did. How did you do the Excel tool, Mario? Like, what the heck?


[00:24:46] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: I did it in 2014, so it was probably different version, right? Um, it probably wasn't that same Excel tool.


[00:24:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: But I do remember being warned by Brian Lepidus from AFP. He's like, just know that the tool, make sure you practice with it. You're not going to like it. And I really didn't practice much with it. Fortunately, I was able to get through it. But I do know what you're talking about. I don't like the tool. And there's definitely some times where I'm like, oh, I can't do this. I can't, it's driving me crazy. So I can relate to what you're talking about. Cassie with the tool, I don't think anyone likes it. You know, Marcus, for you. How long did it take you? And then I'd like to know how did it kind of compare to CFA and CTP from a time and study perspective?


[00:25:29] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Yeah, it took me roughly four months of studying. Keep in mind, because I had the CTP credential by AFP, I was able to skip part one of the F pack and just go straight to part two. So going into part two, I put in probably four months of just consistent studying. I was reading the book materials that AFP provided, and I was also connected to the learning program, like the online learning program and how that compares to the CTP. Similar from a studying standpoint. For that, I studied six, roughly 4 to 6 months. And for the CFA, that's just a nightmare that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. And that just took a lot of time, roughly a few years to go through part one, part two, and part three. So I wouldn't wish that on my kids. Even though I want them to work hard. You can work hard without getting your CFA credential. Uh, if you look at the cost versus the benefits of it, have to make a decision on if it's worth it or not, but for the FP&A   credential or for the FPAC credential, it took me four months of studying. And to Mario's point, I don't think I had to study as much as I did, but one of the methods that I try to do to hype myself up is I want to enjoy the test taking experience. And the best way to enjoy the test taking experience is to be overprepared. And while I was overprepared, I can say that I had an enjoyable experience taking the exam. I walked in with my shirt and tie on and my cufflinks and my nice shoes. I just had a great time taking the exam because it was based on a lot of the work that I do for a living, so it was a great experience from a learning standpoint and a test taking standpoint for me.


[00:27:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Nice, I like it. So, Cassidy, I know you talked quite a bit about the continuing education, so I won't ask you this question. I think we know where you kind of stood on that. But Mario, what's your take on having the continuing education credits. Do you like that? Has it helped you give some thoughts? I believe it's what 45 hours has to be done every three years. Is that the number?


[00:27:25] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: That's correct. Yes. Uh, 45 hours. So averaging 15 a year, you don't have to do it exactly like that. But, uh. Yeah, absolutely. I love continuing education. So it's my main source of how I stay up to date on what's actually happening and relevant in FP&A  . So there, you know, there's always subject matter experts on every, uh, session. There's lots of, uh, recent case studies. So, you know, you can talk about the case studies when you're in school. Most of those things, even by the time you're actually doing it back when you were in school, they're already outdated. So everything that you're getting from AFP is always current and relevant onto what you're actually dealing with day in and day out. So, you know, and there's multiple different formats. There's the conference that we think we've already mentioned. Right. And uh, that you can pretty much get all of your continuing education credits by just going to the annual conference every year. But then there's the webinars and which I've attended. I've been on both of them. Right. I love the study guide, like I mentioned before, the maturity model. That's one of the guides that gets put out and then articles. So it's always really good information and content. So I enjoy it all.


[00:28:33] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Good. Great. And there's actually you know one way if people are interested in it is you can actually get credit listening to the podcast. So there is a way to get that. Marcus, what about you?


[00:28:45] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: I had a twinkle in my eye at the moment Mario mentioned the conference, because that's how I get all of my continuing education credits. I've been attending the conference since 2015 and I don't plan on stopping. I think I missed one conference during the Covid times and during the Covid time period, but since then I've been going to the conference every year and it's just a good refresher that I need. It's a great reset to not only get an understanding of what's going on within the world of corporate finance, and FP&A in particular, but it's a way to be away from work but still be productive. And I definitely enjoy it. It's a learning experience and it's a great networking opportunity for me.


[00:29:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. Thank you. You know, Mario, you mentioned how you got the promotion a year and a half later, but you've had the credential now for about 11 years. So maybe talk a little bit. How else has it helped you in your career? I know you attend the conference every year, but maybe just talk about some of the ways it's helped you or not helped you over the last ten, 11 years.


[00:29:43] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: Yeah. Very good. So, um, you know, there's a lot of networking that happens at the conference, which is one of my favorite things about going to conference. Well, then, uh, that eventually.


[00:29:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: When I get a rocky run.


[00:29:55] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: We did the Rocky run together in Philly. That's where I met you in person. That's right. That was great. Uh, I was just telling my boss about that, actually. And, uh, so then it eventually led to me, uh, joining Brian Lapidus's team, and that's actually how I met. Uh, Marcus already also is the AFP's North American Advisory Council. That is an amazing experience. You can do up to a three year stint there where you're actually helping to create these materials that they're publishing and putting out. And so just being part of that group is amazing. I learned a lot from being on it as well as, you know, got to contribute and share my knowledge as well. I got to be on webinars, contribute to the articles. You know, that guide I already mentioned. And then it's now led to now I'm on their board of directors. So again, another amazing experience. I've never been on a board before. It's really excellent. I do want down the road to join more and more boards. Uh, nonprofits. Great. I'd also love, like, the paid ones type thing, but, uh, to get the experience to even know that. So this has led to that by having that, like, if I wouldn't be on their board if I didn't get the certification. So it's been really helpful. Great.


[00:31:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you for sharing. So like there's been a lot of benefit there. Cassie, I want to ask you kind of a fun question. I noticed this on your LinkedIn profile. You referred to yourself as the accidental financial professional. Tell me about that. How did that come about?


[00:31:22] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: So when I was a little girl, I was never like, I want to grow up and be an accountant. It never crossed my mind. I started actually working at this company when I was super young, and I just never it was not what I intended, and I, I started in accounts payable. I would get my work done early. I would go to my leader and say, oh, my work's done. And little by little, um, she trained me. I had great mentors in my career. She trained me on all different types of things until I actually knew the entire financial system and could close the books, do all of that work. So I've done almost every position in our accounting and finance team here, and I just loved the work. So I originally was going to stay home with my children, and my leader that had mentored me was like, I'm just going to hold your job open for you just in case you change your mind. And I didn't make it six weeks at home, and I was back at work, and I didn't realize at the time that I just really loved the work. I enjoyed the work, I enjoyed the company. I enjoyed the people. And so then I had to figure out how I was going to do that and do everything else that I wanted to do. So I had to shift some gears. And, uh, luckily I have a super supportive, amazing husband who built me a house that's a mile and a half from this building that I work in. And, uh, and he just kind of did everything in his power to make it so that I could have both things that I wanted in my life. So.


[00:32:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. That's wonderful that it worked out and that you love what you're doing. I mean, that's what we all want. And the day you want to enjoy the work, nobody wants to go to work and be like, all right, when's it 5:00? We all do it sometimes. I'm going to guess it's a Friday. You're already doing it a little bit. And Marcus is thinking, when does the baseball game start?


[00:33:12] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Yeah, but I do think, you know, that the hard thing is like on the outside of someone too young when you talk to young kids, I have young adult children. When you're going to graduations or when you're going to things no one's like, I want to be an accountant. It's not. I think people just think it's very different than what it is. And we need to find a way to have some internships and to do some different things, to really let people see what this work looks like and get people excited about it, because some of the stereotypes aren't great. Um, and it's very different probably than what people expect it to be. I mean, we come to work each day and we don't know what day. We work on different things every single day. We have kind of our standard things. But a bill comes and we're analyzing a bill. If we want to expand, we're doing different things. So there's just a lot more to it than probably what people think from the outside.


[00:34:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Totally agree. I think. Another thing that I'll say is also true of FP&A  . Like how many knew what FP&A   was in college? Did any of you heard of it? I hadn't. Right. So that's not surprising. Now, I actually occasionally get college kids that will message me and say, hey, I want to get into FP&A  , can I talk to you? And I'm like, wow, you actually know what it is because it's just not talked about. Everybody knows what investment banking is. Some people have a general idea of accounting, but, you know, not really necessarily knowing the work beside hey, you do journal entries and FP&A   is still really getting that visibility. So I want to ask each of you, uh, kind of just a question. If someone's considering taking this certification, what's the advice you give them? I'm sure people have asked you about it. You've given advice, Mario. What's your advice to someone when they ask you about it?

[00:35:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst:  FP&A Guy here today, I want to talk about something that can help you in your career. That's for certificates. We all want ways to stand out and to validate to our employers that we're serious about our profession and that we understand that a great way to do that is to get a certificate or a credential that demonstrates your ability to do the work.There are several great programs out there in FP&A  and financial modeling, and I cover those on my website. I've done an episode on FP&A tomorrow about them, and I'm doing episodes in the future about all the different programs, bringing in customers to talk about them. So if you're interested in showing your employer that you're serious about FP&A  and upgrading your skills, look at an FP&A  certificate. There's one from Wharton Online CFI. FMI offers a great one for advanced financial modeling. There's the FP&A  Professionals Institute and others, and I cover all those on my website. So go to the FP&A guy and check them out. Go to certificates and courses, FP&A  Certificates. And the best part is, with each of these programs, I have a discount code where you can receive a special discount for taking that program, so check it out today FP&A Certifications — The FP&A Guy. Level up your skills by earning a certificate or credential to demonstrate your seriousness about FP&A.


[00:36:22] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: Yeah, I'm like, if you're in FP&A   or if you're considering moving over to FP&A   from accounting or any other area in finance, I definitely highly recommend getting it. The study materials that we've talked about, that alone is an amazing source of information. And even though before I said I didn't study, that was old material, right, kind of stuff like that, it was like this new product is awesome. And you should always, you know, you should always be learning. If you're not learning, you're actually going backwards. So to stay up to date, you know, know what your, uh, how the, the the world is changing and what we're doing every single day. Um, right. Arnie is getting more and more infused into what we do. Right. So if you get the certification and you're doing the continuing education credits and you're going to conferences and all that kind of stuff, you're going to always know what's going on even. And a good example is we're actually not even using AI in my work today. I want to use it, but I and the way I stay up to date on what's going on, one of the best ways is through AFP. You know some of your content too, Paul, because I know, obviously from LinkedIn and your stuff that you do. But, um, you know, AFP obviously is going to be a great source there for us. So I say do it for the education, the continuing education, staying up to date. And then maybe you'll look into something like what Marcus and I gave as some of our career benefits of getting promoted.


[00:37:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So how about you, Marcus? What do you tell people when they ask you, hey, should I take this certification?


[00:37:50] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: I will say, if you enjoy working in the field of finance, then do it. Just thinking about the other FPAC credential holders who I've met throughout the past few years. Almost everyone enjoys what they do. And so I just think if you enjoy what you're doing within the field of finance and in the field of FP&A   in particular, it's almost a no brainer because of course, you're going to automatically be in that circle of those individuals within FP&A   who enjoy what they do. Like Mario, like me, and like the individuals on this call here. So it's something that I would just recommend. And that's really all I would give as advice. Just go and do it.


[00:38:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Alrighty. And Cassie, how about you?


[00:38:29] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Same thing. I mean, I think it's just there's no downside to it, right? Except for studying. If you don't, if you don't like to study, it's probably not. Not your thing. But there's not really a downside. And I even.


[00:38:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Think you might pass if you're Mario.


[00:38:41] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: I mean, there's a there's there's a, there's a chance you could just pass. So I don't know that I would risk it because it's kind of expensive. But and I also think they should broaden it out even to people who really are heavily focused on strategy. Right. Because a lot of strategy is really about the financial impact and how that looks. And I think there's more that can benefit from besides just financial folks.


[00:39:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Sure. And then the last question on the FPAC and then we're going to go into kind of some standard sections and wrap up here. So last one is if someone asks you for advice on studying preparing for the exam, what do you typically tell them? We'll start with you on this, Cassie.


[00:39:24] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Practice the Excel tool.


[00:39:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I had a feeling that was going to come up. Something told me that would be at the top of your list. Anything else?


[00:39:32] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Practice the Excel tool? No, I mean, I think just going through the material, like the material is laid out very, very well. The practice tests are great. I think that the biggest thing, if I were to do it again is I would just probably, uh, have taken I didn't get the advice to practice the Excel tool, but that's one thing I would do. And and just like Marcus, I love the idea of going into it and just enjoying it, right? Like embrace the experience and just enjoy the the process of learning and looking at things differently from the material.


[00:40:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And the one thing I will add is pay the extra for the exam prep platform.


[00:40:09] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Oh yeah.


[00:40:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It's worth it. Don't just do the test. You want that to help prepare you? Uh, that's what I saw. Everybody nod their head when I said that. That's definitely my advice. I'll add. Marcus.


[00:40:20] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: I was going to say, Paul, you took my answer. I was going to say, go through the exam prep platform. That was my that was in my head. The exam prep. Just do it. The practice problems can't hurt. Uh, I know we talked about the hatred for the Excel tool from certain parties here. I didn't have that same hatred. Uh, but just I think going through the practice problems over and over again puts you in a better position to excel. Uh, come test time. So that's my number one piece of advice in terms of how to prepare. Just go through the exam prep platform and go through those practice problems as much as possible.


[00:40:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Pretty amazing. Just put it put in time. Practice the problems. Prepare yourself. Mario, what advice do you give people? Do you tell them to not be like you?


[00:41:02] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: Yes. Well, usually I don't tell people that I didn't study. I say get the material study. You know, I didn't know how hard the Excel tool, I guess was to use kind of thing. So I guess it would be, hey, definitely heavily focus on using that and knowing how to use it, you know, quickly. Right? So that's what it sounds like people need to know is do the study materials practice and know how to use that tool really well.


[00:41:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Alrighty. So now we're going to move into the FP&A   section and just kind of looking for a quick short answer. I'm going to ask each of you this. So we'll start with Mario on this one. Mario, if I was to ask you what is the number one technical skill that FP&A   professionals need to master, what would you say?


[00:41:49] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: For the longest time I would have said Excel. I'm now changing my answer to, um, knowing how to use AI. And, you know, I mentioned before, I'm not using it, but I'm trying to make sure that I'm staying, getting educated on how to use AI in the workplace. Right? So not just using ChatGPT, but I'm not afraid AI is going to take my job. But if I don't learn how to use AI when we do roll it out, I will get replaced by someone who knows how to use it, right? So I think knowing and understanding how to use AI in the workplace will help me to stay in my job and probably even advance.


[00:42:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I appreciate that. So first we've had this change from Excel. Overall I think it's amazing how quick it's changing the way we work. So I think you're the first guest I've had that says, as said, I had plenty say Excel. Cassie, what about you?


[00:42:39] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: I'm all about data. Data infrastructure, really building out the platform and the architecture. That's really what makes it so that you can iterate quickly and leverage those AI. So we actually are using I. We're leveraging a lot of technology at our company. And really what has reduced the barrier to entry is that we've spent a lot of time on that architecture and the data infrastructure and really understanding how we can leverage that.


[00:43:08] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Thank you. Marcus, what about you?


[00:43:12] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: When I think about technical skills for an FP&A   professional, I think about the ability to merge financial analysis with the industry specific operational activity that drives the financials. And I don't know if that's technically a technical skill, but just that ability to merge finance.


[00:43:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Give it to you.


[00:43:29] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: With the ability to merge those financial nuances with the operational activity. I think that's the number one skill for FP&A   professionals to have, because I think that'll get you the ability to get the influence across the organization that you want.


[00:43:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Okay. All right. So we'll start with you, Kasey, on this one. What's that softer human skill we need to have? What's number one in your mind?


[00:43:50] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: I think the biggest thing is just really putting yourself in the shoes of your customer and understanding the problem from their perspective and seeing how you can serve them. So when somebody brings you something that you're doing an NPV on, that is their baby. They really want this project to succeed. And you have got to put yourself in their shoes. And you need to be their ally and do your very best to represent that project to the best of your ability. And also be willing to, you know, to tell folks when, when their baby's ugly, um, in a kind way. So, you know, I think that's really it's really about service. You've got to be able to be willing to service your customers and really be that partner to them, for them to trust you and let you in.


[00:44:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I think service is a great one, as you said that. The other thing I've heard of a lot of people say that made me think of you gave that answer is having empathy. Yeah. For your business partners. I think those kind of go hand in hand, that service and empathy that you mentioned. What about you, Marcus? What would you say is the number one soft skill?


[00:44:53] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: I'm going to take a page out of Cassie's book, and I'm going to say sincere curiosity. Uh, not just curiosity, but sincere curiosity, uh, asking questions and learning things. Not so that you can find people going through a gotcha moment. Uh, but really asking questions to get a better understanding so that you can help drive the conversation where it needs to go. So I think about soft skills for professionals. I think that sincere curiosity can go a long way.


[00:45:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love that one. I think I've had curiosity before. I haven't had sincere, so I like it. Marcus, you're giving me different things to think on. I love how everybody has a slightly different answer. It's great Mario, I think.


[00:45:28] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Yeah, I think being in certain meetings, I've been caught in those gotcha moments and I'm thinking, okay, are you really asking this question because you want to know? Or are you just trying to make certain people look bad? So I think that's oh.


[00:45:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Come on, we never do that. I know what you mean. I appreciate you sharing that, Mario.


[00:45:43] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: All right. Yeah. So my soft skills is probably closely related to the answer that Marcus gave to the technical skills, because I'm going to go with, uh, telling a compelling financial story in your presentation. So the higher that I've moved up in the company, the more and more presentations that you have to do. And it's not just preparing the presentation itself, which is probably more related to that, uh, technical side, but it's how to deliver it knowing your audience. It's not a one size fits all approach, because if you're especially presenting to executives, they're all different. They want to see it a little bit of a different way. You need to learn how to actually speak to the data that you're talking about, speak to the slides. So it's really I guess it's more about the knowing your audience part to tell that story.


[00:46:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, definitely a huge one. Really important. So thank you, each of you for sharing that next section. We're going to have one question for each of you, just to get to know you a little bit on a kind of more personal. So they're kind of fun. Different questions we'll ask each of you. Marcus will start with you. What did you want to be when you were growing up as a child? What was your kind of dream job?


[00:46:51] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Wow. Born in Atlanta, Georgia, I wanted to be, uh, a football player for the Atlanta Falcons. Uh, my mom and dad both met at Florida State University and ended up moving to Atlanta. And growing up in the late 80s, early 90s, there was a player by the name of Deion Sanders who went to Florida State and ended up playing for the Falcons. So I grew up wanting to be just like Deion Sanders. And then I realized at some point that I wasn't fast enough, and I decided to take on finance and see how far that could get me. But yes, back then I wanted to be a football player for the Falcons.


[00:47:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Not surprised. Being a Falcons, your parents are going to Florida State Deion. Yeah right I mean he was larger than life personality and still is as the coach of Colorado. So quite the athlete. Alright Mario, here's your question. If you could have any job in the world for one week and it could be somebody's job or a type of job. Up to you. Either or. What job are you taking?


[00:47:47] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: So first of all, I love Nyan Nyan. Uh, and I would like my answer is going to be similar because it's football related. So I, I would love to be the the athlete out there, but right now I can't go because I'm late 40s now. I'm not going to go out there and be a professional athlete, but that doesn't mean I can't work in a professional, uh, you know, athletic organization. So I love the Tampa Bay Bucs. So I'm like, could I be the general manager there for a week? Can I, uh, you know, be part of the contract negotiations with the players? Look at the salary caps. I'm thinking like FP&A , how are we formulating that long, long term strategy of the organization? Right. Diving into the analytics of the players, uh, the, you know, the site, like how you figure out player performance, all that kind of stuff. You know, watch a game from the owner's box, uh, you know, meet all the players. I'm like, I got all excited about like. Oh, it was like, oh heck yeah. Football. Let's do this.


[00:48:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. You saw that question and you knew the answer right away. I could tell how excited you were. I'm like, I think you've been more excited for that question than the entire podcast. Mario, we know what your passion is.


[00:48:55] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: And I love sports.


[00:48:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: But we have a few people here we can tell passionate sports, football, baseball, all those things. Cassy, here's your question. If you could recommend one book to our audience to read, is there a book out there you'd recommend?


[00:49:08] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Okay, I am an avid reader and I can't give you one. I'm going to give you three. Okay. All right. So we'll.


[00:49:13] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Give. I'll go ahead.


[00:49:15] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Okay okay. One is that the future is faster than you think by Peter I can't pronounce the last name Diamandis or something. Um, love that book. Just kind of talking about what's out there in the future in AI and what that looks like. I love a book called Alchemy: The Dark and Curious Science of Creating Magic by Rory Sutherland, and that's just about marketing. It's about marketing and how you get people to do what you want. And then I love Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely. Just because sometimes from a finance perspective, we'll we'll publish stuff all the time and we'll literally just change a report a little bit. And all of a sudden everyone sees things differently. And so just like how people interact and see things is so interesting to me. Like it's so we'll just change things and just see what lands. And every once in a while someone will be like, oh, I didn't realize blah blah blah. And I'm like, wow, that's been it's been like that for a long time. So I love the science of how, how to get people to look at things and how to get them to understand what you're presenting.


[00:50:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. Very helpful. I've heard a few people say, and sometimes you feel like you're a therapist who's ever felt that way. I see everybody nodding. Right? So there's something about learning how people think, understanding how they respond to different things. I want to thank each of you for joining. It's been a pleasure having you on the show. I really enjoyed everything you share, and I'll give one last kind of opportunity. If there's anything you want to add before we close here. Just kind of go around the horn and give each of you just a last word, as I think some shows call it. Uh, Mario, why don't we let you go first on this?


[00:50:56] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: Invest in yourself. Never stop learning. Always continue growing, both professionally and personally.


[00:51:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. Marcus.


[00:51:05] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: I'll just say enjoy what you're doing and be around like minded people who also enjoy what they're doing. Um, it'll make your days and nights a lot better and a lot more enjoyable.


[00:51:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks. Appreciate that. Cassie.


[00:51:18] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Yeah. I think letting down your guard and kind of embracing the community, really, really networking and and, um, surrounding yourself with people that think very differently, I think is very beneficial.


[00:51:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. Well thank you. I love those answers. We'll put each of your, uh, LinkedIn profiles in the show notes. So if somebody wants to reach out to you or maybe get in touch, they hear this and they'd like to ask you something, they'll be able to do that. And again, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.


[00:51:46] Guest 1: Mario Vasquez: It. Thanks for having us.


[00:51:47] Guest 3: Cassie McCombs: Thanks for having us.


[00:51:49] Guest 2: Marcus Gadson: Thanks, Paul.


[00:51:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz, and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on earmark and contact me the show host for further details.





Paul Barnhurst
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