The Influence Skills for FP&A Pros to Build Boardroom Trust Without the CFO Title with Wassia Kamon

In this episode of FP&A Tomorrow, host Paul Barnhurst chats with Wassia Kamon, the Chief Financial Officer at Access to Capital for Entrepreneurs (ACE), about her journey from financial planning and analysis (FP&A) to leading as a CFO. Wassia opens up about the challenges, surprises, and growth she's experienced, particularly in learning to navigate the boardroom and building strategic influence within her organization. Along the way, she shares valuable insights into leadership, trust-building, and why it's essential for finance professionals to expand beyond the numbers.

Wassia Kamon is a finance powerhouse with over 15 years of experience across various industries, including manufacturing, technology, pharmaceuticals, and nonprofits. As CFO at ACE, a nonprofit lending institution, she plays a key role in providing capital to entrepreneurs. Wassia has also been recognized as a 40 Under 40 honoree by CPA Practice Advisor and is the host of the podcast The Diary of a CFO. She's passionate about helping high-potential finance leaders step into executive roles and shares her expertise through coaching, speaking engagements, and teaching at the Wharton Online Certificate Program.

Expect to Learn:

• How Wassia transitioned from FP&A to CFO and the unexpected challenges she faced along the way.

• The power of trust and relationships in becoming a key business partner, not just a number cruncher.

• Why being invited into decision-making conversations early is a game changer for finance teams.

• What it was really like dealing with the board of directors for the first time as a CFO.

• How to expand your influence and take a broader view of business to become a true strategic partner.

Here are a few quotes from the episode:

• “In FP&A, it's important to build those relationships early and not just be the person catching up after decisions are made.” - Wassia Kamon

• “You can’t be great at FP&A unless you are in the room where decisions are made. It’s about having the trust to influence, not just report.” - Wassia Kamon

• “Good FP&A is when you're already top of mind to decision makers, and they come to you for input, not the other way around.” - Wassia Kamon
  

Wassia delivers a powerful perspective on the role of financial leaders and the critical need for stronger relationships, trust-building, and strategic influence in today’s business environment. This episode is essential listening for finance professionals, aspiring CFOs, and business leaders looking to enhance their impact, improve decision-making, and build stronger, more collaborative teams.

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In Today’s Episode

[01:42] - Welcome and Introduction

[03:29] - Wassia’s Journey from FP&A to CFO

[05:02] - What Makes Great FP&A?

[07:13] - Dealing with the Board for the First Time

[09:45] - Building Trust and Strategic Influence in Finance

[13:20] - Leading in Multiple Industries

[17:05] - Expanding Your Network and Influence

[21:14] - Managing Uncertainty as a CFO

[25:32] - Leadership Lessons from Wassia’s Career

[29:00] - Building Effective Relationships in Business

[33:47] - Key Takeaways

Full Show Transcript

[00:00:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst:. Welcome to FP&A  tomorrow, where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka the FP&A  Guy, and I'll be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A . Each week, we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts, and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. This week, we have a real treat for you as we're going to be joined by Washa Kimon Washa. Welcome to the show.

[00:02:17] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Thank you so much for having me, Paul. Pleasure to be here.

[00:02:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Excited to have you. I think the last time we talked I had a different podcast.

[00:02:24] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Yes.

[00:02:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I'm glad we're able to do this. So let me give a little bit of background to our audience about Washa and then we'll jump into this. So Washa is the chief Financial officer of Access to Capital for entrepreneurs Ace. With over 15 years of experience, she has worked across the manufacturing, technology, pharmaceutical and nonprofit sectors in various accounting and finance leadership roles. He was twice recognized as a 40 under 40 honoree by CPA Practice Advisor. She is a keynote speaker whose insights have been featured in major publications such as The Wall Street Journal, Accounting Today, and Strategic Finance Magazine. She is also a guest faculty member for the Wharton Online Certificate Program, the host of the popular podcast The Diary of CFO, and the creator of the office of the CFO boot camp, a leadership development program designed to help high potential finance leaders transition into executive roles. So how do you find any spare time with all that in your bio?

[00:03:33] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I don't have time.

[00:03:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right.

[00:03:36] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I just like.

[00:03:37] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It wasn't just me. What does great look like to you? We like to ask every guest this question to start the show.

[00:03:45] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Good for is when a business partner calls you, when they're thinking about doing something, and they want to have your viewpoint on it, your input on it. So you're not the one trying to catch up to what's going on in the business, but you're already top of mind to the decision makers, so you already have your inputs. You are able to do better forecast, adjust your forecast when you need to, and you're seen as somebody people want to work with versus somebody they have to work with.

[00:04:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I like that someone they want to work with versus someone they have to work with. Can you share an example from your career when you've seen great FP&A  in action, and what was the result of that?

[00:04:28] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Sure. So I will say, when I was at Lyft and the Low Income Investment fund, which is also a cdfi, and it was there, I was VP of Finance and Corporate controller. So I was overseeing both FP&A  and accounting, and we were trying to work. The program team was trying to see what new programs should be out in terms of lending product. How can we better help the borrowers? And I was brought in early in some of those conversations. Now, it took me about a year to get there, to build that trust to the point of, oh, we're thinking about x, y, z. Would you like to join the meeting? We see that the brainstorming stage. So I was super grateful for me. It was like, yes, you made it. They trust you and they invite you then, because a lot of times the problem with both finance and accounting and organization, like we're playing catch up with the rest of the business, right? We either it's either that we don't have the right tools. Right. Because we're still doing a lot of things manual. So we have to literally catch up. But it's also because we're not invited into the rooms where the decisions are being made when they're brainstorming is happening. So we can say, hey, why don't you do it this way or that way? And that takes being intentional about how you're going to build those relationships, your reputation, to be that business partner that they want to work with.

[00:05:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you for sharing that example, and I like how you stated it took time, right, for you to be viewed as what you called great for where they're putting you in the room before the decision is made versus where we've all been of, hey, here's the change we're making. Go put it in the budget. Yeah. Well, you do realize it's a bad idea, right? Oh, decision's already been made. Okay.

[00:06:12] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Deal with it.

[00:06:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Which we've all we've all experienced. So I think that's a great point about FP and a you have to be in the room. You have to have the trust of the partner to be able to do great FP and a and sometimes that takes time. Mhm. Can't step into every role. You could be great at your job and step into a role and not be able to have influence, not able to do your job well because there's a lack of trust for whatever reason.

[00:06:44] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Yes. And it's not your title, mind you, my title was VP of Finance and controller. So, you know, you will assume that. Yeah, I have a title. Oh, they're going to call me. They didn't call me. They didn't call my director of FP&A . We were in the dark. And so it does take time to to build those relationships and and.

[00:07:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I wouldn't know anything about titles. I was only ever a director. Didn't get that. Cfo and VP and all those fancy titles. Like somebody I know.

[00:07:13] Guest: Wassia Kamon: But, you know, people tend to assume because you are the person in charge of FP&A  for this division or because your director or whatever, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. It comes down to the influence you have.

[00:07:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I couldn't have said it better myself. I 100% agree with you. Even though I was having a little bit of fun. You know you don't need a title to influence. You don't need a title to build trust, to build great relationships, to be good at your job. Often the best people don't have the title. We've all seen it. We've all seen analysts that are like, wow, they're great. And they're going places and they make a real difference, even though their title is analyst or senior analyst or, you know, whatever it might be. It really is about learning how to build the trust, the influence to guide decisions. And, you know, similar to your experience, I had a boss that one time told me, you know, Paul, you don't just report to PNL, you help shape the PNL. And I think in many ways that's great for when you know you're making a difference to the bottom line. You're not just a spreadsheet jockey or a report person.

[00:08:25] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Yes, yes. Love it.

[00:08:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So. All right, you've been a CFO for eight months now.

[00:08:32] Guest: Wassia Kamon: About. Yes.

[00:08:33] Host: Paul Barnhurst: First time. So I'm curious, when you first found out you were going to be a CFO, how did you feel? What was going on in your mind?

[00:08:40] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I was excited, I was like, yes, I always wanted to be a CFO. Yes, yes, yes. And then I was scared like it went. It went like the whole time between me transitioning was time of yay and oh my God, yay. Oh my god. Like I literally went through all these stages. So it's a great organization. It was the first time in my life that I was hired on the spot. Um, so that was amazing too. And I was like, okay, this is going to work. It has to work because I'm in it now. Um, but that was great. Um, for me to really step into a role I really wanted to step into. And it was also for for those who have been following me on LinkedIn. And I was talking about this, this, they were like, oh, what you CFO now I'm like, you should have been listening. I've been telling you, this is how you do it now that I okay, let me let me tune in a little more. I'm like, aha, aha. It's the same thing I've been saying for years. Um, but yeah, super grateful to be in DC. I will say that there is a lot of things that I thought I, I knew, right, because I, I've led both accounting function. I'm a CPA so I technical accounting I got this part and I also led FP&A . So I was like yeah I, I should be fine. But there's a lot of things you don't realize that go even beyond that. I know we often say always beyond the numbers to the point where it's so cliche now to say it. Um, but there's a lot of things you, you may not realize until you are in this seat.

[00:10:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So what's the biggest thing you realize what surprised you in the seat that you're like, oh, I have to deal with this. Maybe something you didn't expect.

[00:10:17] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I think the number one thing that what I did expect, but not to be, um, that difficult, uh, was dealing with the board of directors. So in FP&A , I was prepping the slides. Right. Maybe I was presenting a few things during a board meeting, but when the the dynamic change, when you're in the room and you're no longer the person helping, but you're the CFO, so maybe the board members were not asking you tough questions because you were just in the room because you were helping your boss. Now you're it. It's like tag. You're it. And that's a different dynamic because it's not just preparing the slides. Every time you open your mouth, you are being assessed on what kind of financial leader business leader you are. And is the company in good hands? So it does shift from, oh, if I have a nice slide, I have a nice story. It's going to run. It goes way beyond that. Uh, it's not just your storytelling now. What relationships do you know about the board? What are the things that this board member may likely ask? Or you can anticipate, not even in your slide, but also in the notes of how you prepare yourself.

[00:11:31] Guest: Wassia Kamon: What kind of conversations are you going to have before the meeting? After the meeting? How are you going to make them feel comfortable? That the company is in good hands is so important. So for me, dealing with the board was the biggest thing. I, I didn't expect some of the dynamics to shift the way they did because to me, I had been in a boardroom. I know what the slides look like. I should be fine. I did the model. There is more. Um, the second thing I will say is around clarity. So people look up to you for clarity. When you yourself are looking for clarity, you're trying to figure things out and people are like, yeah, help me figure things out. So there is a lot of leaning without a roadmap. I think being in FP&A  helped me, because you have to make some of those model predictions without having 90, you know, 100% of precise information. You go ahead. So it does help to know how you're going to navigate that uncertainty. But that is like ten x maybe 100 x when you get to to this stage. So great learning experience so far. I'm enjoying it.

[00:12:41] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Good. Well, I'm glad you're enjoying it. I want to kind of dive into two things. You said first, with the board you mentioned right there, assessing everything that comes out of your mouth. How do you make sure you're prepared to handle that? What did you do to make sure you're comfortable in your first board meeting? You mentioned, hey, I've been in those. I know what goes on, but as we all know, once we experience it, there's a difference between preparing something and being responsible for everything. Yeah, and I imagine that's what you had to learn. So how did you manage through that? Like walk us through how you got comfortable to say, you know, I feel like they're trusting me. They feel like I'm the right person in the seat. And what I'm saying is what they want to hear. How did you kind of work through that?

[00:13:24] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I think I just grateful to be surrounded with great people. So first, the founder, um, gave me an update. So here's going on with the board. So I didn't ask the question because I didn't know to ask the question. But Grace is so wise. She's like, let me tell you about our board and what to expect in this meeting. So that was very helpful. So after that conversation, I went to the CEO and I was like, okay, Shannon, that's his name. And Shannon is a he I have to tell my, my, my, my friends and my kids. I'm like, Shannon is a man. So Shannon is a CEO, my best buddy shout out. And I was like, okay, what's going on in this board? Like, what are the what is the dynamic? Um, how like what should I do to be prepared? I went to think thankfully, the the former CFO did leave me some great documentation, his cell phone number. And so I was able to have those conversations to prep myself because I quickly realized after that conversation with the founder, was it, you can't just walk in there like, whatever. Um, so and then I was also able to ask some of some of the CFOs in my network. So I have good friends, CFOs, and I was like, okay, how do you deal with the board? So maybe I haven't asked the question because I didn't know to ask how to really prepare for it. But being I'm still in contact with some of my former bosses. So the minute I knew this was going to be a big deal, I just went straight into my network and it really helped me.

[00:14:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, that's kind of what I was. I think you covered what I was going to talk about. The second one you said, yeah, hey, sometimes I'm looking for clarity is everybody's coming to me for clarity. I'm guessing network is somewhere you can turn to at times for that. Having people that have been a CFO before or, you know, maybe someone's talking to the CEO. But I would think when you're looking for clarity, how often is there someone you you trust that you turn to? And hey, could you give me a little bit of advice here, or I'd love to get your thoughts on how you handle these type of situations. You find yourself doing that as a CFO?

[00:15:26] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Yes, yes. So I'm part of the CFO Leadership Council. And there is like almost like a it's almost like a group chat. Uh, you get emails where you can ask questions and see what others are answering. Um, so it does help. I joined it when I was a controller, actually. Um, so it helps you see ahead of time what could be some concerns, you know, people have and how they're handling it, how other companies of different sizes of different industries are handling certain things. I have an executive coach, my therapist, my network. But I think it comes down to also be vulnerable and be willing to say, I don't know. I'll get back to you because you won't always have the answers. And yes, people are looking to you as you look for clarity, but as you are going through it, I let them know when I don't know.

[00:16:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So is being vulnerable something that came natural or how did you how did you learn to be vulnerable? Because I think that's something a lot of people struggle with. Sometimes we don't want to say, I don't know or I'm struggling with that, just like you are. Give me some time to think about it and I'll come back to you versus. Oh, I always want to appear as I'm all buttoned up and I have all the answers. So how did you, you know, learn to to be vulnerable with with your team and with the people you work with so they know, hey, I'm struggling to. I'm human. Even though. Yes, I'm in charge. I'm here to lead you. It doesn't mean I have all the answers.

[00:16:52] Guest: Wassia Kamon: It was in my first manager role, so I thought as a manager I had to know everything. And in my first management role, half of my staff was twice my age. They had been with the company longer and I was like, so it means that I even have to know more about my stuff. And half of them quit, uh, the works. They had to be done. So I was there very late. I had to learn a lot of the leadership managing people the hard way because I didn't know. So a lot of times you promoted to leadership because of your technical skills. You're the person for that Excel file. You're the go to person for the system. You know the GL accounts by heart. I knew that and you get promoted and it was for your technical skills. But now at this new level, you have to do performance reviews of people who used to be your peers. I wasn't ready for that. I had to fire someone that I was having lunch with when I was when I wasn't the manager yet. Like, there were so many things that I wasn't prepared for that I had to learn the hard way. And that's what a lot of my content on LinkedIn is always about leadership, because I feel like, unfortunately, a lot of us learn it the hard way, and it shouldn't be that way, because in that process, the people I managed at the time, I'm like the worst boss ever. The people I manage now, they're like, oh, great boss. So I think that also brings a lot of the bad bosses. We don't know what to do with micromanaging us and it creates so much havoc in companies. But there is that leadership transition gap in so many companies, in so many companies.

[00:18:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I agree, one of the things I was grateful for when I was at American Express is as soon as someone became what they called a people leader, you could be a manager that was a non-people leader and that was a people leader, right? Big companies have all terms for everything. But we were immediately, within those first few months, put through a leadership training program. And I still remember some stuff talking about situational leadership and how to manage people. And I was really grateful they had that process because small companies, you don't get that. Most companies, even big companies, a lot of times you don't get that. And so I really appreciated that at American Express, because you're right. Right. Rarely do you get promoted for your leadership skills. There are exceptions, but 90 plus percent of the time it's technical things you've done. It's because you're really good at your job. And so it's like, all right, let's we want to reward them. And the reward is, oh, you now get to be a manager and have other people under you and then you're you're drowning because it's such a transition and you want everything to be done your way. At least I did. Yeah. And I remember more than one lesson. I'm like, okay, step back. It doesn't matter. Yes, I see you smiling. And so I think it's great that I know you do some training around executive and leadership.

[00:19:45] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And I think that's great because every company needs something, you know, whether it's the boss, whether it's some training program, you know, a couple hours to just be given the promotion and then kind of be cut loose. It's easy to, to, uh, sink if you don't have the right resources,

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[00:21:25] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Yes, absolutely. And I'm so glad to hear you didn't have to go through it, because sometimes I think the problem is we sometimes think we need a big, elaborate program for that transition from individual contributor to people leader. But you don't need much. Just having the person aware of what could happen can set them up for success. Knowing where to go when they face x, y, z. That alone is helpful. A book you may have read. I love The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni. So things like that. Just that. But you usually have nothing. And that's the problem.

[00:22:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And so what do you do? I mean, obviously you promoted some people. You've been in leadership positions. So what do you do when you're working with somebody that's going into a leadership position for the first time? What have you found helps them that you do.

[00:22:20] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Care and be thoughtful, know and be able to tell them my story and let them know that I understand that this is going to be hard, and letting them know that I'm there for them. And of course, any resources I may have. I coach my people. I, I'm like I because to me as a leader, like I cannot do all the work. I need them to succeed like I do. We have a vested interest in each other to succeed. So oh gosh. And I and I think it also helped because like you said, not everybody will admit that. Oh yeah, I messed up at some point in my career. We all want to look so great. But I think you have to be vulnerable. You have to be authentic and open about the realities of leadership, because leadership is hard. It is. But as long as you have the right tools and you're surrounded with the right people, it becomes easier. There's always some part of that that are, you know, funky, but it gets better like this. And for me and the people that I've led throughout my career. After I learned what I learned, um, has always been, as long as you care, you're thoughtful. Um, you are providing the resources. Even if the company doesn't have a formal program.

[00:23:33] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I usually have a list of LinkedIn courses that I recommend watching around productivity, how you have your one on one, because these are the small things that really make a difference, because you get in and you're like, you don't know what to say in your first one on one with a person. Okay, have a plan. Here's a potential agenda. You know, some of the things that, oh, this person is doing this and it really opens the door so that as things are happening, we can have those conversations that can make sure you are really setting yourself up and the whole department for success, because the last thing you want is people feeling like, okay, you promoted the wrong person. I'm going to leave. Of course, people will always leave, but when you leave out of this grant because you're disgruntled, it's not the same as you leaving. For I have a better opportunity. And, you know, something came up. It's because the way you will transition your task are going to be different. How you train somebody else is going to be different. If that experience was not good. And that's what I want to avoid because you cannot prevent people from leaving. But the way they leave that you can do something about and why.

[00:24:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great point there of, you know, one, you can't control people leaving, nor do you want to. Right? You want people to get advanced and to find new opportunities and to be happy. But you want to make sure the reason they're leaving is not because they're disgruntled and they're going to do a poor job changing the next person, and you're going to be dealing with that problem for weeks or months, potentially, because somebody was set up to fail. Usually that's kind of what it comes back to. Sometimes it's the person. We've all had some of those where you just have to cut your losses, so to speak, and move on. But often there's there's reasons behind that. And often they weren't set up right. So I love that you spend all the time, hey, here's the resources, here's courses. And the one thing I love more than anything that you said is first, I let them know that I care. But as a manager, I'm here for them. I'm here to support them. We can only be successful together. So you're creating that shared interest. You're showing empathy. You're doing those things that when they have a problem, they'll come to you. And have you found that being the case, that you have people coming to you a lot when they have problems and asking for advice?

[00:25:47] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Oh, yes, yes, yes. And I'm always open. I know it's hard. Like you think about your calendar, all the things that you have, but it does mean a lot because really, I realize people don't ask for much if you just care and respect those two things. Care and respect. People don't ask for much. They don't. Employees don't ask for much. If you just care and respect really any peers you work with, it's its care and respect. Um, because sometimes, you know, they can come with something that's difficult, but just showing that you care even if you only have two minutes, it's enough because they just told you and you stopped what you were doing to listen, even if it's just two minutes. The care and respect is enough for them to go back and deal with the situation, resolve it and come back to you. So I always try to make time for that and they know it. And so they come to me for that.

[00:26:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, thank you for sharing that. I think there's some great lessons everybody can learn from your example. There is a leader. I'm going to shift gears a little bit away from your CFO experience. Few other things I'd love to cover. First, let's talk about your podcast. Yeah, the diary of a CFO. Not not to be confused with The Diary of a CEO. That's also a podcast I've heard quite popular. How did you end up starting a podcast? How did that come about?

[00:27:13] Guest: Wassia Kamon: So when I started my role about eight months ago, I was like, okay, uh, I'm going to need content for LinkedIn. I'm going to need to connect with other CFOs, because I realized I need more CFOs in my network. And I looked at my, uh, my phone. I was like, hmm, I don't have a lot of people that are CFOs. So to create content and still meet with people, I'm like, I can do both in one podcast where I can go in and document my journey, invite other people, and now I have a good excuse when I slide into people. Dm like, hey, I have a podcast. Why don't you come on? And it's really people have been trying to talk to for years. I've been stalking them. One of them is, uh, William Washington. He's a CFO of a large company. And now I'm like, I have this podcast, you know, and I've been trying to get him to come. And now he's like, yes, I'm coming. But these are just great conversations I always wanted to have because I realized the power of a network, and also the fact that now I have a guaranteed post for LinkedIn. We're just recapping my conversation. So it's two things in one.

[00:28:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yes, I totally understand the content. I have a ton of content now that I can use from, uh, all the conversations I have and network. I've met so many amazing people like you and I met through the podcast and so many others. It's a great, great way to build a network. But what do you hope the listeners get from it? I know you're getting a lot of benefit from it, and that's fabulous. We all want to benefit. I know I get a ton of benefit from my podcast. Uh, you hope the listener takes away from your podcast.

[00:28:45] Guest: Wassia Kamon: The same thing I have been posting about on LinkedIn. Learning from real experience. Like real people who went through real things, not just AI generated content that you can learn from. And for me, most importantly, is realizing that finance leadership comes in all sizes, shapes, colors. Um, being able to understand that your career path doesn't have to be linear. Like you, you have to plan a B to Z on day one. But listening to people, how they went from AB1 to then z g like you get to understand how this all can all come together to have a very fulfilling career. So the same content has always been about leadership development and again, trying to hear from more people because a lot of CFOs, and a lot of other finance leaders don't have time to post on LinkedIn. So we are missing out on so much knowledge that I feel is untapped. And I'm so grateful for podcasts like yours for now, mine with the diary of the CFO that people can actually hear from all of those experiences.

[00:29:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Couldn't agree more. It is wonderful to have all these podcasts and resources today to learn from others. You think 20, 30 years ago it was a lot harder, right? Basically who you knew, who you had in your phone and that was it. Then the internet came. It became a little easier. Social media platforms, podcasts became bigger. Now it is so easy to connect with people around the world. It is amazing the opportunities you have available to learn from others that have great experiences and can teach you something. And you're right, most people choose not to post on LinkedIn either. They don't have time, they're not interested. They don't think they'll be good at it, whatever the reason is. But the reality is everybody has something to share. And some of the guests that you think they think they have nothing to share end up being the best on the show. I can't teach you anything. And you're like.

[00:30:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Oh, it's so good.

[00:30:51] Guest: Wassia Kamon: It happened to me so many times. Like, right now I'm trying to get one to come back, actually a couple of them, and it's usually the one like you said, they're like, oh, I don't know. I haven't done it. It's my first time doing a podcast and I'm like, please come. They're so good.

[00:31:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Agreed. So, podcast. Love it. I love the leadership focus. We may talk a little bit more on that, but I want to ask another question here. I'm curious. Over these eight months, as you've now been a CFO, how many of your views are the way you see FP&A  changed and if so, how?

[00:31:23] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I haven't seen I don't have a different view of what FP&A  is and should be. I think one of the things that I think could be improved though, is getting more business acumen and, you know, not staying too long behind the spreadsheet. So in my current role, I work a lot with operations, with lending operations, because I have to understand it for everything else to make sense. Um, in this role, I'm raising capital. Um, what does it mean? What am I like if I go in front of the founder? Okay, what is going to be my story, not a spreadsheet. Um, so all these things, you realize that, um, if you if you heard a lot of people say, yeah, it's beyond the numbers, like, it's really beyond the numbers, like you do have to build those relationships and really understand the business. So you can start connecting the dots so that when you hear something in the news, what does it mean for the company? You have to build that strategic mindset, that business acumen of, okay, so if I see this in the news, if I see this new legislation, this is what is going to mean for us, what can we do about it now? How can we prepare for it for the future? What needs to change now, for the future? What needs to change now in the short term as well, to optimize our revenues and expenses? So all these things, you do have to be more in tune with the business, and that comes with you being intentional about getting away from your computer. I mean, if you're remote, stay at the computer. But getting away from your desk, accounting desk, I should say You know, finance desk and talk to other people.

[00:33:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I know what you mean. Get outside yourself. Whether you're remote in an office.

[00:33:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yes, yes.

[00:33:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Learn the business. Spend time with them. You're seeing more and more just how important that is. As you, I guess, as you move up the ladder of just that business acumen and really being able to have those conversations with operations and whoever it may be.

[00:33:27] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Mhm.

[00:33:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And some of you talked about there is uncertainty and we know right now there's been a lot of uncertainty. Right. There's a lot of political things going on tariffs, different type of things and kind of been going back and forth. You know a lot of government changes in the US. I know your company's in Georgia. How do you manage all that uncertainty. How are you making sure you're putting your company in a position to be successful when you don't know what's coming tomorrow? You know, things are changing a lot. So how have you been managing that as a CFO and making sure, you know, financially you're prepared for just the uncertainty and changes we're seeing right now. They seem pretty rapid to me.

[00:34:06] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Oh, yes. Very rapid. I will say first, one thing that helped me even before stepping into this role is that I led the session for the Wharton FP&A  program. It was on navigating change and uncertainty, and I had spoken to that at a CFO conference for the AICPA in April of that year. So the conference was in April, Wharton online was in August. And that's also at the later that month, I became a CFO. And what it allowed me to do was studying uncertainty. And so there is a matrix called the Rumsfeld matrix. And it walks you through the known knowns, the unknown unknowns. And basically it's a matrix that says, what are the things that you know, and what are the things that you don't know and what can you do about it. So for example we hear about tariffs. Okay. This is outside of my realm. Room. What other thing? What are the things that I know it could be from history, right? I know that prices may increase. Okay. I'm a small business lender. What is he going to mean? Because even in uncertainty, something I'm more certain than others. For example, I know for a fact that if there is more inflation prices going up, that discretionary income will come down, which means the businesses that depends on people's extra money, spare money will suffer more. So think about your restaurant or things like that.

[00:35:36] Guest: Wassia Kamon: But the businesses that are based on people's needs will still thrive. Your grocery store, your daycare. You still have to put your kids somewhere, but also your dentist. Like there are certain industries that are even in those in that environment are more certain than others. So how do you do? And I'm going to speak from the perspective here. Being the CFO of the lending institution is okay. So go back to your portfolio and analyze how much of the current people in your portfolio are discretionary based or non-discretionary based. What is the likelihood that there will be more impacted than others? So that could help you see in your current portfolio. What should you expect then, as you looking toward new businesses, new borrowers that may come to you? How should you change your credit policy? Or maybe ask more question in that initial intake? Like how much of your retail merchandise come from X place? Maybe questions you didn't have before that you may think about having because again, you are able to connect the dots. Yes, there is uncertainty, but remember, there are certain things that are more certain than others even in that environment. And what can you do about it? Because you cannot change the whole world, but you can definitely control certain things, do certain things to optimize your business. And that's really what it comes down to.

[00:37:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: : FP&A guy here, and if you're like me, you hate sitting through sales demos where a salesman pressures you to buy the tool that promises you the world. Well, in order to make this easier, what I've done is I've created the 2025 FP&A Tools Showcase. You might be wondering what that is. Well, that's where you can come and see some of the best platforms in FP&A  software. Share how they think about FP&A  without having to be one-on-one with the salesman. You get to listen to them talk about and demo their software, ask questions, and see them against their competitors. On May 22nd, 2025, this event is free for you, where you'll see several of the top FP&A tools and even a go-to-market tool. Share how they think about FP&A. See the show notes to register for this event for free, and I'll see you on May 22nd. Thanks.

[00:38:13] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great point. There's always things you can control and there's always knowledge. I mean, some people say, well, we can't plan for a black swan event. You can plan. That one's going to happen. You can look at history and say, what are the type of things I should be prepared to do if one comes, you may not know what's going to cause it. You may not know exactly how it's going to work. Therefore, you can't be fully prepared. But the fact that you've at least thought about what you're going to do, you've talked about the knowns, you know, kind of getting into scenario planning as well a little bit here. You're much better prepared for when it happens, even though you may throw out a lot of the things that you thought you were going to do. And I imagine you've seen that again and again, even if you plan for some uncertainty when it actually comes. You're like, oh wow, that was quite different than I expected. This helped, but I'll do these five things differently. But you at least have that thought process and you've prepared yourself versus well, it's unknown. It's uncertain. I'll deal with it when it comes.

[00:39:10] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Yeah, you can do that.

[00:39:13] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You're saying that's a.

[00:39:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Bad idea to just wing.

[00:39:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It? Yes.

[00:39:16] Guest: Wassia Kamon: You can't. Yes.

[00:39:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. All right. So we're going to move into we have two more sections left. One is what kind of the FP&A  section. And this is where I ask some standard questions. I guess we have 3 or 4 questions here. We're going to ask. So the first one is what do you think is the number one technical skill that FPA professionals need to master.

[00:39:40] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Financial modeling technical skills? Yes. I don't care what system or software you're using in Excel. You just have to understand how to model financial state. How are you here again connecting the dots. How are you here okay. If I change something in this revenue, what is going to happen all the way from your expenses, from your cost to your balance sheet to your cash flow statement, you have to understand the full spectrum of financial modeling.

[00:40:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right.

[00:40:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. And how many people in finance do you think understand that? Do you think that's a skill that a lot of people struggle with? It's curious. Your take.

[00:40:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I don't know.

[00:40:22] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I actually never thought about it. Maybe 5050 maybe.

[00:40:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It's surprising. Right. Like how often have you had to restart over on a model?

[00:40:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Oh gosh.

[00:40:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You inherit a new job, right? And that comes down to design. So I think even though we all do modeling, it's something we all struggle with. And some of it is just hard. Some of it goes back to training, just like leadership. First time you're a manager. What's interesting, I agree financial modeling has to be near the top of the list. You know, I get a lot of different answers, and that's one that is very common.

[00:40:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Because.

[00:40:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: They have to build a model for sure.

[00:40:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Mhm.

[00:40:59] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What about soft skill. Are human skills. Some people like to call it relationship building.

[00:41:05] Guest: Wassia Kamon: You have to be able to build relationships. And unlike what most people think is not, being an extrovert won't make it better. I think introverts are actually best at it because they're one on one they're like, oh yeah, I got this. Um, compared to extroverts, right? Because they're like, yeah, we'll talk anyway. But I think that regardless, you have to be good at building relationships and building effective relationships. So it's not sending a like on LinkedIn or hey hi. Like it's actually understanding who's across from you is also having emotional awareness to understand the things that triggers you. So you're not just going to run over the minute they say something you don't like. So it takes a lot. But I think building relationship, anything in that umbrella is like the number one thing. Because without them, like we talked about earlier, you can't really do a good job. I mean, your forecast will be bad. The day goes out. Well, sometimes it does even without you doing it, but at least you will have buy in. At least you will have the buy in. And that goes a long way.

[00:42:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Without a doubt, having the buy-in of your business partners makes a big difference. All right, so the next one we have, how do you see generative AI impacting FP&A  moving forward. What's your thoughts?

[00:42:28] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Oh gosh I, I saw a demo of data rails.I saw a demo of Vienna. I've been looking at different demos because I've been shopping for FPGA software myself and oh my God, I was blown away. And I do encourage anybody. Just go watch what's going on right now. What is possible within Afghanistan, within accounting systems, even ERPs and so on. For me, it comes down to you have to be able to do the higher thinking stuff because AI is going to do everything else. Um, we talk about financial modeling. It can do it, okay, but it won't know what are the variables that should be weighted more than others. So it can give you a first good draft, but you need that business acumen, problem solving, and strategic thinking to make that first draft better. But it will definitely increase the capacity of what we're able to do in FP&A , because there is a lot of copy pasting in places where you don't need to duplicate work that's not needed. I think you'll be able to, you know, automate that for sure. And then it's those other things that you will really need to really elevate the first draft. It will give you. And I'll question it. Just questioning it.

[00:43:49] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it.

[00:43:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, I think I'll reach out to Vienna and Dardanelles to sponsor the podcast.

[00:43:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Okay. Yeah.

[00:43:56] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Yes they should.

[00:43:59] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm glad. The different rules and.

[00:44:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Liking what you're seeing. It's. It's amazing to see how quickly AI is developing. And like you said, it's going to do a lot of things for us. We need to be able to make sure we can take it and add the assumptions, the human side, the judgment, all those things that go with what I can do, right. We're coming up on one of our last sections, get to Know you. This is where I get to ask some personal questions.

[00:44:26] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Oh, okay.

[00:44:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: How uncomfortable can I make it? I'm kidding. So I know you have a ton of free time. So what's that hobby or passion you're doing that you have with all your free time?

[00:44:40] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Cooking food. Anything around food like it keeps me nice and padded and grounded. I love different kinds of foods, so I'm a foodie. I like trying different food. I'll be the one seeing a recipe or going to a restaurant and seeing, okay, I need to replicate this at home. So I've done Jamaican food, Indian food, like you name it, I've done it because nobody else in the family here, uh, cooks like they're only in the kitchen to grab something to eat. And so I feel like I have the kitchen to myself. And I'm able to, to create, to do things, to think through. So I do enjoy cooking. I know a good thing next to it will be fitness, but I'm not there yet. Um, but food is like number one.

[00:45:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Might be a favorite.

[00:45:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Recipe or favorite thing you like to cook.

[00:45:31] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Oh, okay. I like to make something from my home country, Ivory Coast. It's called, um, attiéké and fish. So it's like a couscous of cassava with fried fish. And then I also fried plantains on the side. The ripe plantains. You have to pick the ripe plantains, okay. When they almost look like they're going to go bad, that's when they're the best. Plantains deep fried with the deep fried chicken. Oh, yeah, that doesn't sound good. But you do have some vegetables on top. Some like it looks like a.

[00:46:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So you're in the south.

[00:46:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Living in the South now because you said deep fried a few times in there.

[00:46:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yes.

[00:46:07] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Yes I, you know and that's the thing too, I, I left West Africa to come to Georgia, so. Oh. Can you imagine.

[00:46:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I, I.

[00:46:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Don't know if you've ever had abalone, but it's a fish. They have to pry it off the ocean. So you free dive for it and it's in a clam, and you pull it off and it has to be pounded and cut, you know, tenderized. And I've had it deep fried. And after I watched the whole process, I helped with it by tenderizing it and cutting it and deep frying it. I would go.

[00:46:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: At that.

[00:46:37] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Point I think leather would taste good after you did all.

[00:46:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That to it. I mean turkey though.

[00:46:44] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Have you tried fried turkey?

[00:46:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I have not.

[00:46:47] Guest: Wassia Kamon: In my life. I'm telling you, you need to try. Fried turkey would change your life. Okay.

[00:46:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Doesn't interest me, but maybe I'll give it a try just for you.

[00:46:57] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Thank you, thank you. You'll thank me later.

[00:46:59] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right.

[00:47:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: We've covered food. We got that passion out of the way. I see the smile. And you came alive. I should have started with food.

[00:47:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You should have.

[00:47:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'll remember that for next time. The third time we do this.

[00:47:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yes.

[00:47:14] Guest: Wassia Kamon: We'll start with food.

[00:47:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right.

[00:47:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: This is. I'm curious to see what you have to say here. If you could have the job of any one person or any job in the world for a week, what are you going to do?

[00:47:27] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I'll be a food tester. I'll be a food critic. So either on the food Channel, I have a few shows I want to be a critic on, or just go and be like, uh, the people that go in and they tell you what's going on. Yes, it will be around food too. Yes.

[00:47:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Food reviews. Food critic.

[00:47:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yes, yes, I started a blog on that.

[00:47:49] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Who needs leadership? Food.

[00:47:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Food?

[00:47:54] Guest: Wassia Kamon: That would definitely be it.

[00:47:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm looking.

[00:47:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: For your food website next in your.

[00:47:59] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Spare time. Thank you.

[00:48:00] Guest: Wassia Kamon: No pressure.

[00:48:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I will.

[00:48:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Subscribe.

[00:48:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you. Alright.

[00:48:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Last get to know you question. Do you have a favorite? Favorite movie that you like?

[00:48:09] Guest: Wassia Kamon: It's a kids show. It's called Boss Baby. It was on Netflix. It was actually a movie a couple years ago. And yes. And Boss Baby. Uh, as a family, we still watch a few episodes of Boss Baby every time, almost every week. And it's funny, like once you have small kids, um, my TV time when I get a chance to watch Netflix, which is very rarely now, like I could watch some Netflix at some point. Now it's just watching Boss Baby when the kids are watching it. That's it.

[00:48:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. All right, so, boss baby, for everybody, what's his recommendation? Check it out on Netflix. We're an advertising show here.

[00:48:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you.

[00:48:53] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I should have thought about that.

[00:48:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Oh, totally. Good, I love it. All right, we're going to go ahead and wrap up here. And so I just have one more question I want to ask you before we finish. You know, if someone, you know, in our audience wants to get better at really being able to provide strategic influence to the business.

[00:49:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And.

[00:49:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Being able to make that difference, where should they start? What should they be doing today?

[00:49:16] Guest: Wassia Kamon: To me, they should be working on expanding the network. So sometimes in finance at work we only deal with finance people or the division we are responsible for. You need in your network, both inside the company and outside of your company, people from all the key department in the organization. How many people do you know have marketing majors and are marketing? Same for HR supply chain Treasury. Like you should have a wide spectrum of people, both inside the organization and outside that are expanding your view of business. And you will notice that even in the small conversations, you'll be picking up things like what concerns them. This happened. You will be surprised how a HR person will see it a certain way. A legal person will see it a different way. An accountant will see it a different way, an IT person will see a different way. And I think that will help you once you're able to speak to the pain of people, to speak to their strength, to understand their perspective, it makes building your influence very easy. But it starts with you having a broader perspective and a broader network.

[00:50:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That broader perspective, broader Network. All right. Last, last question we have. If someone wants to learn more about you, the resources you offer, maybe get in touch. Tell them how they can do it.

[00:50:42] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Sure.

[00:50:43] Guest: Wassia Kamon: I have a personal website where my podcast also have a website.https://www.wassiakamon.com. I'm always on LinkedIn. Should I spell my name? Because sometimes I know it's hard to figure out what was on it, but that's really where you will find me and be able to connect with me and have resources. I think the podcast is something that is really helpful. I'm getting so good feedback from it, whether because I also have a newsletter for the podcast on LinkedIn and people are able, if they're not able to listen to the whole thing, but grab what's going on and grow every week, because I do post every week about it.

[00:51:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great.

[00:51:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, enjoy continuing to do the podcast, and thank you for sharing your resources for coming on the show. I had a great time talking and really enjoyed it with you, so thank you.

[00:51:35] Guest: Wassia Kamon: Thank you so much. It was fun too. Thank you. Always a joy to talk to you, Paul.

[00:51:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well thank you. Well, we'll see you. We'll see you here soon. So look forward to it.

[00:51:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz, and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on earmark and contact me the show host for further details.