Being a First Time CFO in The Restaurant Industry, Lessons Learned with Alex Holt

In this episode of FP&A Tomorrow, host Paul Barnhurst welcomes Alex Holt, the CFO of Milo’s Hamburgers, to discuss the intersection of finance, business operations, and growth. Alex shares his journey from public accounting to the food service industry, offering insights into the challenges of managing finance in a family-owned, fast-growing restaurant chain. He also discusses the unique dynamics of budgeting, forecasting, and providing advice for aspiring finance leaders.

Alex Holt is the CFO of Milo’s Hamburgers, a beloved 23-unit fast-food chain known for its iconic burgers and sweet tea, based in Alabama. With experience as the Executive Vice President of Finance at Capstone Communities and a background in real estate, Alex brings a wealth of knowledge in finance, data visualization, and process improvement. He is passionate about making data useful and has a strong focus on enhancing financial operations.

Expect to Learn:

• How the role of FP&A extends beyond reporting to driving business change.

• The unique challenges of managing finances in a growing, family-owned restaurant chain.

• The importance of process improvement and documentation when scaling operations.

• How Alex uses technology to improve efficiency and communication.

• Key metrics and strategies for managing finance in the restaurant industry, including labor and food costs.

Here are a few quotes from the episode:

• "I use ChatGPT every day for communication, summarizing information, and even Excel formulas. It's a great productivity tool." - Alex Holt

• "If accounting is reporting what happened, great FP&A is about understanding the why behind the business activities." - Alex Holt

• "Great FP&A is about pulling insights from what's going on in the business and using that to drive change." - Alex Holt

Alex shared valuable insights on what makes a great FP&A professional, the importance of process improvement in a growing company, and how technology can enhance financial operations. His practical advice on managing costs, forecasting, and building consensus provides key takeaways for aspiring finance leaders.

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For CPE credit, please go to earmarkcpe.com, listen to the episode, download the app, answer a few questions, and earn your CPE certification. To earn education credits for the FP&A  Certificate, take the quiz on earmark and contact Paul Barnhurst for further details.

In Today’s Episode
[04:02] - What Does Great FP&A Look Like?
[06:28] - Alex’s Transition to CFO at Milo’s Hamburgers
[08:13] - The First 90 Days as CFO
[14:36] - Using AI in Daily Operations
[16:14] - Standardizing Processes for Growth
[23:44] - Expense Ratios in Fast Food
[25:02] - Considering Franchising at Milo’s
[27:06] - Budgeting Horizons in Real Estate
[30:45] - Advice for Aspiring CFOs
[36:57] - Soft Human Skill
[42:56] - Theme Song for Entering a Room

Full Show Transcript

[00:01:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Hello everyone. Welcome to FP&A Tomorrow, where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst aka the FP&A Guy , and I will be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A Every week, we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. And boy, do we have a lot of uncertainties these days. This week I'm thrilled to be joined by Alex Holt. Alex, welcome to the show.

[00:02:20] Guest: Alex Holt: Hey Paul, thanks so much. Happy to be here.

[00:02:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, excited to have you. So let me give a little bit of your background and we'll jump into this. So Alex is the CFO of Milo's Hamburgers, a 23 unit fast food chain based in Alabama with nearly an 80 year history and a fiercely loyal following, often called the Shake Shack or Whataburger of Alabama. Milo's is known for its legendary burgers, secret sauce, and famous sweet tea. Before Milo's, Alex was executive vice president of finance at Capstone Communities, one of the nation's leading student housing and multifamily developers, where he arranged over 1.1 billion in debt and equity financing. He began his career as a CPA, and we won't hold that against him. At PricewaterhouseCoopers, working across multiple industries in public accounting before moving into real estate and eventually food service. Alex has a deep love for making data useful. He's especially passionate about data visualization, financial storytelling, and presenting insights in a way that drives real change. In addition to his role at Milo's, he also provides fractional CFO and financial advisory services to privately held businesses through his firm, RGM Group. And after hearing all those great things, what he's most proud about as an achievement is being husband to his wife Jordan, and dad to three amazing daughters. So we can say, girl dad, right?

[00:03:55] Guest: Alex Holt: We Weekend.

[00:03:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. I love it. Well, again, welcome to the show. And we're going to start with the question we ask everybody. Tell me what great FP&A looks like in your opinion. What's great FP&A.

[00:04:06] Guest: Alex Holt: Well first of all, I've been a big fan for a while. Fan of all your podcasts. So really this is a treat for me to spend some time with you today. So great FP&A  You know if accounting is reporting what happened. You know I think great FP&A  It's about understanding the why, you know behind the business activities. It's pulling those insights, the information about what's going on and being able to present that to drive change. You know, one of the main reasons I left public accounting after five years is because I didn't want to just report, you know, on what happened. I really wanted to be able to impact the business.

[00:04:42] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Makes a lot of sense. So really it's it's all about, as you said, if accounting is the history, the FP&A is the why and the move forward. So I would love to see if you could share an example of when you've seen great action, maybe kind of what was the result of it or just a situation as you look back over your career?

[00:04:59] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. So before Milo's, I spent about six years at capstone, which is a national student housing multifamily developer. You know, at any point in time, we had 8 to 12 different development deals in the pipeline. We had, you know, 6 to 10 different types of active construction jobs. We had an in-house construction group, in-house property management group, and development team. One of the things we did when I was there is put together a comprehensive cashflow forecast of all the different deals, you know, going on at at one point, each deal had its own pro forma, its own financial model, but wanted to have a way basically to have a snapshot at any one point of all the different moving pieces we had to get. And that was the thing I really loved about my role, is it sat at the intersection of those different teams, so we put that together and involved a lot of different teams, and I think it was good because it showed the cash kind of where we are, where we've been and what's the needs, you know, over the next 12 to to 24 months.

[00:06:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: There's something great when you put together a report that really can help the business, make smarter decisions, drive things forward. And often that reporting is not as simple as it seems like, hey, can you just give me this data? And you're like,can you wait a week? And they're looking at you like, can't you just do that in like five minutes? Have you seen our systems? So we've all been there. So anytime you can get that together where it really drives value and helps decision making, it's always great. So you've been CFO of Milo's for a little under a year. Talk about what the experience has been like so far. What's it been like being CFO?

[00:06:36] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. It's fun. I mean, it is a fun company and brand to be associated with. If you ever come to Alabama, you have to come get one of our burgers. But I would say kind of equal parts fun, equal parts chaos. Just a marathon. It's like I tell friends and family running a marathon in quicksand. Like literally every day. We've been around for 79 years. Tons of loyal fans, customers, great tenured staff teams. Passionate. But we've a lot of our systems and structure, at least from a kind of corporate back office, which, you know, has some opportunities. Let's just say that to kind of kind of get us ready for the next 79 years. So I would say crash courses in restaurant finance, team building, chain change management, you know, are a big part of it. So it's been fun.

[00:07:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: But I'm glad you enjoyed it. Sounds like fun. Challenge all those things. And when you mentioned running marathons, I've run a few marathons, but I haven't done one in quicksand, so I can't compare the two.

[00:07:38] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah, I may not look like it, but. But back and back in my day, I did run cross country and track and, uh, like I said, it's fun. It makes the days go by fast at ten, 11 months. But it feels. It feels longer. So.

[00:07:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I did cross-country and track in high school, and I ran my first marathon at the age of 17. I don't look like it now, but, you know, I have run a few marathons, so I know what you're talking about there. All right. So I have a feeling there's a story behind this. You're now the CFO of a retail chain. You know, Milo's before that, you were in real estate. You know, you've been a vice president. Things. How did that come about that you ended up, you know, kind of getting a job in the fast food retail because for what I could see, you had no experience in that area before. So not only are you changing industries, you're moving up to a CFO level. So I have a feeling there's a little bit of a backstory on how that role came about.

[00:08:35] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah, no, for sure. So I worked in retail about 25 years ago, um, back in, in high school.

[00:08:42] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I don't know, the high school counts.

[00:08:44] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. Right. Right. As a grown up, I've not worked in retail. So yeah, but now this is a new industry for me. I would say in my professional career I've always had a passion for food, for cooking, just, you know, personally, um, I've been a fan of Milo's, you know, since I was a freshman in college at Auburn. But a couple of years ago, while I was working in real estate, I actually started my own firm, uh, to kind of moonlight doing some, some fractional CFO, fractional, uh, kind of financial advisory work for, uh, for actually a friend of mine who had an emerging franchise concept and that, you know, got to see all aspects of, of the business. It kind of opened my eyes like, wow, you know, there's more than just this little piece of finance. And so through a different personal connection, I heard about heard about Milo's and I just thought, you know, hey, here's a great, uh, new challenge, uh, to come really kind of see the whole finance function, um, versus just kind of one, one little piece of, of finance or accounting. But. Yeah. So it's it's, uh, if you had asked me two years ago, you know, if I had planned to be here, I would say, well, that sounds cool, but I, I think that's pretty wild. So just being open to new opportunities has been fun.

[00:10:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. Yeah, I know I was curious because. Yeah, exactly. You look at your background and that's not an actual I would have expected when I look at you kind of go up to your CFO, you look through and you're like, okay, a little bit of a shift. But yeah, sometimes those are the best roles. When you get to do something different, get out of your comfort zone and learn.

[00:10:19] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. I will say, you know, I don't know how many of your audiences have done time in public accounting. But that is one of the great things about public accounting is you get used to shifting industries, you know, engagement by engagement. So, um, I think that probably also helped me prepare to kind of shift from, hey, I was doing one week, maybe healthcare clients one week, banking clients one week, you know, manufacturing clients. So Numbers or numbers. Business is business. But, uh, but yeah, the widgets cranking out of Milo's are different than what I was doing at capstone.

[00:10:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Sure. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, there's a lot of similarities. Business financials, as I always say, no matter what company you go to, it's a three statement. There's a balance sheet, there's cash flow, there's a PNL, there's revenue. There's some kind of Cogs, there's people. There's a bottom line. I mean, yeah, there can be a lot of differences. But when you boil it all down, there's a lot of similarities. And I have to laugh. When you said you did time in public accounting because someone I recently interviewed, they said they did a stint in public accounting. I'm like, we're relating to this, like going to prison or something, you know, hey, I did time at the point or I did time at. And so I always kind of laugh because I'm not an accountant, so I tease him. Is it really that bad?

[00:11:31] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. No mixed emotions. There's there's good parts. There's bad parts. So I think, um, it's, uh. Yeah. Doing my time. I did my five years and I'm. I'm happy to be on the other side.

[00:11:41] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Almost everybody I say says they learned a lot from it. They're glad they did it. But most people don't want it for it's not a whole career for most people, and that's how it's designed, right? You go into it knowing that very few people go into it thinking, I'm going to make a career out of working for the Big four or whoever it is in public accounting you're working for. Well, I'm curious now, what were your first 90 days like? It was my first time CFO. What were some of the things you did to kind of help set you up for success, or how did you kind of go into that role? Because I'm sure we have people, you know, who want to be a CFO one day and are kind of looking toward that. So I'd love to know a little bit about that first 90 days.

[00:12:19] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. No, for sure. I mean, I would say I listened a ton, I asked a ton of questions and I wrote everything down. You know, like, my brain only has so much capacity to retain all this knowledge. And I'm coming into a 79 year old company with, you know, great folks that have been in their jobs for, you know, decades in some instances, like you said, like you the three statements or the three statements, but I don't know the particulars of this software or the particulars of our, our steps. And so I'm just like, tell me, tell me what you do for the team. And I want to write it down so I can understand it, not only because I may be doing it, but also so I can look for ways to, to improve upon, you know, our, our process. So I would say, yeah, the first 90 days I spent some time in our stores just kind of operationally to kind of learn, learn what we do. But then uh, listen, ask questions and, and write it down.

[00:13:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's amazing how often I hear that. You know it. Listen. Ask questions so important those first 90 days. I'm curious. I would imagine with a company like this, it's a pretty small corporate staff, right? You have a lot of finance people incorporated, somebody managing at the store that's the manager of the store, but also doing the financials.

[00:13:39] Guest: Alex Holt: That's right. Yeah. We've I mean, it's a small team. A great team. Like I said, great, great experience. But it is a smaller team. And I would say with, with so much tribal knowledge, they didn't necessarily have to have to write it down. But as I'm thinking about scalability and, and growth and we're at 23 stores now. But you know, I think we want to not just stay at 23 stores, you know. And so I want us to be able to replicate what we do with others. And with that you gotta take stuff down. So I mean, I'm using a good old fashioned word document. I'm taking screenshots of stuff, just asking a lot of questions. And then really, this has been fun taking all that and kind of bullet point or blurb, uh, kind of format, put it in a ChatGPT and say, hey, can you help me organize this better? Which has been really fun too.

[00:14:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I'm curious, how often are you using AI in your work then?

[00:14:39] Guest: Alex Holt: I would say if folks aren't paying for the $20 version of ChatGPT, they're missing out. I use it every day. I would say I'm using it mostly for communication related stuff, helping me summarize information. Help me with email. I've put in kind of Excel for, you know, I've asked it kind of how to do certain Excel formulas, which is fun. But um, yeah, I'm using ChatGPT every day. We just implemented a new, uh, ramp, you know, kind of a spend card, uh, expense management tool.

[00:15:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I'm familiar with ramps. I know they're a popular one that's really been growing.

[00:15:15] Guest: Alex Holt: It's been great to use. And they have I, you know, kind of pre code stuff. Yeah. So I'm, I'm kind of constantly thinking how we can use automation to, to kind of cut down manual steps.

[00:15:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah I know it's pretty amazing. I do have a $20 subscription to ChatGPT. My co-host of the other show I do called Future Finance, he has 201 and I'm like, I can't quite bring myself yet to do that. But he's like, I get the value out of it quite easily. I mean, I have Claude, I have a copilot, so I'm spending a little over $60 a month. So I get probably about 70 on average, a month on tools. So I guess I'm not getting too far away from that 200. But it's amazing what you can do with AI. And you know, as you mentioned, you do a lot with AI in the process documentation. But I also imagine coming into a company that's 80 years old, relatively small, family owned, probably a lot of opportunity for process improvement and standardization. You talk about how you're looking at, hey, we may want to grow, add more stores, whether it be a new state, whatever it may be. How have you focused on making sure processes are standardized and not just written down, but in a place where they're easy to repeat? You know, they're automated as much as possible, right? Because the more stores you add, the more work you have.

[00:16:29] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. No, I mean, I'm still I mean, it is a work in progress. I'm figuring it out as I go along. But I'm continually thinking because I am too. We've got a great team, but I want to make sure they're using their best, you know, time, talent, resources in the best way instead of just, you know, doing it because we've always dreamt about it, you know, just kind of manual non value added work. And so I'm trying to write stuff down to think about. All right. Is there a way to automate this? Use some kind of software and then let our team really focus on higher value, like you know, added activities like the true analysis side of it, um, just kind of data consolidation. So it's a team effort for sure. My team has been gracious in letting me ask questions, you know, multiple times. And, hey, explain this to me. Why do we do this or that or show me this or that? but it's really understanding, understanding the why behind everything. But, but yeah, it's been a fun, fun dream.

[00:17:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, good. And I'm curious, what's the traditional way to maybe walk through a little bit what the budgeting and forecasting process is like in the retail industry? I mean, obviously there are some things going to be similar across all industries, but maybe what makes it unique and how you think about that. I'm sure you've been through a budget cycle now.

[00:17:52] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. No, I think what's interesting and it's maybe obvious the thing about it is just how seasonal it is. Right. Like the restaurant industry is. You know, I think coming into this, I might have just thought about, you know, kind of like month to month changes and forecasts and hey, you know, last month it was this this month is that. But really, you know, it's more of a hey last April or last July. You know, we did this. It's July now. Are we on track against that same period, you know, prior year? The other thing that's just interesting is remembering, hey, if we have, you know, business interruption, like, we're not making money unless we're open, right? So, like, when we have weather events or are closed for the holidays, you know, that's one less day of sales. And so you're looking at, you know, comparative periods. You've got to keep that in mind. I would say yes, we've historically been on an annual, you know, planning cycle, putting together, you know, annual budgets. But as far as forecasting, I mean, we have a week to week cash flow forecast where we're looking at, you know, the traditional six weeks in the past six weeks in the future and just making sure we've got, you know, we've got the right cash in the bank to cover our bills. So yeah, there are some unique things about the restaurant industry, but also, you know, business is business.

[00:19:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And so I'm curious, is there you mentioned kind of year over year, I imagine by the time you have to normalize that data to compare it, a, you know, this month we were open for 30 days last year, this month it was 29. Or, you know, the holiday fell in April and last year it was late March. Whatever it might be, all those types of things. To really understand performance. Right.

[00:19:40] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. It was funny. So our accounting system like closing out February this past, you know, earlier this year 2024 had a leap year in 2025 does not. And so running prior year against current year the prior year it literally ran like, you know, two 1 to 228 this year versus last year. Well, we booked a bunch of stuff on the 29th of 2024. And so I was like, hey, I don't think it should be this significantly different than, you know, lo and behold. Oh yeah, we need to normalize that. So that's kind of, you know, understanding the why and not just taking things on face value. There's a good reminder of that.

[00:20:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So and then I would assume you're doing forecasting for every single store. Roll that up. And add kind of corporate to it. Is that how.

[00:20:30] Guest: Alex Holt: That's right. Yeah. We have an individual PNL for each of our stores, um, as well as kind of like a corporate, you know, PNL or column. You know, in our, uh, accounting software. So, yes. You're not just taking annual expenses divided by 23. You're really looking at, you know, how does this high performing store do against maybe one that doesn't have as much volume?

[00:20:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Sure. I would imagine stores in a premier real estate location could do substantially more than other stores, so they're going to have a lot more expense, but they also have more revenue, and they hopefully have more, uh, more profit. Maybe the margins are the same or less or whatever. I mean, sure, that all varies depending on a number of things.

[00:21:15] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. And, you know, uh, some of our fixed expenses, we, uh, you know, we allocate that based on a store's performance. So it's, you know, we don't want to necessarily burden 1/23 of, you know, our corporate office rent expense to this store or that store just because it's one of 23. So yeah, just just thinking qualitatively through that, you know, how to account for things and, and measure the true, you know, financial performance is important.

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[00:22:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I know it makes sense. What are your top operating metrics? What do you like to look at regularly to kind of judge how you're performing? You come in on a Monday morning. What's those things you want to look at?

[00:23:01] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah, know for sure. And we've got daily reports I mean sales you know, just top line sales is, it is an obvious one a metric in the restaurant industry, the prime, uh, percentage, which is, you know, the combination of your labor plus your food costs, uh, divided by, you know, your total sales. That's something we measure sales per labor hour is another one that, yeah, I've come to understand is important for the restaurant industry, you know, product mix what what items are selling and you know what items are not, uh, and then, you know, get old fashioned, just cash on hand. You know, we're continually looking at our cash dashboard and looking at what we brought in for the week and, and spent for the week.

[00:23:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So yeah. And so you mentioned one of the big ones is expense plus food divide sales. Is there a kind of general ratio fast foods you like to eat? Like I'm sure there's some industry benchmarks. Yeah 70% 60. What kind of general benchmark?

[00:24:00] Guest: Alex Holt: So what I've come to understand is that what we shoot for is 60%. You know, I think and it depends on how big a store is. But for a store it's like, hey, if we can, if we can hit 60%, labor and food costs and then you, you know, 30% other expenses, that leaves you with a 10% margin. I think that seems to be kind of an industry standard and one we shoot for.

[00:24:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So sure, you want to be in the industry, you're better I, I get it. We know we all want to be efficient. And so that's helpful. I wasn't sure the number I figured was somewhere 6070. I wasn't quite sure. So that makes sense. I was kind of curious.

[00:24:44] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. I think the two differ. It can vary depending on if you're a franchisee versus a kind of a franchise or a model. We are all corporate owned units, so there's no royalty expense. You know, we're shooting up the corporate. We're managing all that, you know, internally.

[00:25:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Is there any have you ever guys thinking about franchise or is that something they've ever considered or so.

[00:25:10] Guest: Alex Holt: Back in the day we had some franchise units, but just a decision was made back in the day just to kind of focus on corporate owned.

[00:25:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So sure. Yeah, I know there's a lot of different businesses that have different employees. You know, out here. It's now popular. You start in California, right? You have a big burger chain. And why is this? In and out? Slipped my mind for a second there. And you know, they're all corporate owned. And so they've expanded very slowly and very strategically. So you see others that go franchise and sometimes they're successful. At other times it's like wow we way oversold that. Definitely pros and cons both ways. Yeah. So I'm curious about the restaurant industry. You mostly worked within real estate for a long time. How was budgeting and forecasting different in the real estate industry? I imagine there were definitely some nuances that were unique to that industry.

[00:26:02] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah, no, and I worked there during a really fun time too. So I mean, and I worked for a development company so that, you know, budgets are everything, construction budgets are everything. As I mentioned, we had individual performance for each deal, continually refining both internally on how we would run a program, the multifamily units and then getting updated construction numbers from either our own internal team or external contractors. And then two, we had a number of different capital partners. And so depending on how the debt or equity was structured, we would be updating that in the performance to make sure, hey, at the end of the day, what, you know, how much is this project going to generate in profit. So I would say it was more kind of project based forecasting and budgeting versus kind of as a corporate entity. But it was helpful. And it was, it was fun. It was, uh, some very, some very robust, uh, financial modeling. I got to.

[00:27:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Know, how many years did you go out typically, was it a longer horizon within the real estate space or.

[00:27:13] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. So when we were doing deals where you might be, uh, in pre-development for, you know, 2 to 4 years, you know, you're chasing down dirt. Put it under contract, working through entitlements. So, uh, it's one of the student housing projects I worked on. It was in pre-development for, like, four years. And then, you know, construction, uh, timelines, you know, 2 to 3 years, and then it can, you know, take 12 to 18 months to, to stabilize. So, um, yeah. And a lot can change, you know, externally and internally when you're, you know, during that, that time period.

[00:27:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So, yeah, interest rates can be totally different. And a lot of other things are, especially if you're on a variable type arrangement.

[00:27:57] Guest: Alex Holt: Soft was, you know, like what now is like 4.3. But it was like zero, you know, for a while there until, until, middle of 22. So yeah. No, it was a lot of fun and, kept us on our toes.

[00:28:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I know we definitely had a period there where, uh, money was free. That is basically now that's no longer the case. And Sin. It's funny how people's behavior is so different when money is not free. All of a sudden, expenses matter, which they should always matter. But we've just seen that, especially in the software and the SaaS industry, it has grown at any cost. Yeah, for the longest time. And now it's like, please be responsible in your growth, which is the way we should run every business, right? It's the way we want to run our own life. We want to be responsible in our spending. But sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the revenue growth trap. I'm sure, as a CFO ask you, how do you manage that? You know, right. There's always wanting more revenue, but revenue for revenue sakes, not necessarily a good thing. How do you kind of manage that with the business and trying to stay away from that revenue growth trap, so to speak, where you're just growing for growth's sake?

[00:29:05] Guest: Alex Holt: So Myles has been around for 79 years. We want to be around at least another 79 more. So I think that's one of the reasons why we're the size we are because we don't want to just raise a bunch of outside capital and try and, you know, take over the southeast and then it's like, oh, you're overleveraged. And then, you know, you're not around anymore. So I think myself and the other, you know, leaders in the company really look at us as kind of stewarding this, this great brand. We want to reinvest in the company. We want to build up a balance sheet, but it's being smart. Um, I mean, we've actually in the last, uh, two years, uh, you know, rightsize some of our stores that weren't performing well, you know, and so we want to be, you know, the most efficient organization we can be, with what we've been entrusted to. And, uh, but, yeah, it makes us, uh, as I'm talking with, with software vendors and others, it's like everything's got to have a defined, you know, payback. We don't just have a blank checkbook to go sign up for this tool or that tool, you know.

[00:30:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You mean you can't just go spend money on whatever you want? Walk.

[00:30:16] Guest: Alex Holt: I know we do not have that policy here, so. But that's why we've been around for so long, you know, because.

[00:30:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Makes you feel any better. I don't have that policy for my own business either. Yeah.

[00:30:26] Guest: Alex Holt: It's a great environment to be in. And like you said, it's just kind of smart business to remember that money money isn't free, you know.

[00:30:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So you can ask a kind of a question here for, for our audience, if someone's listening, they're in for a and let's say they want to be a CFO one day. They're looking to try to find that role. Any advice you'd offer to kind of help prepare yourself for that type of position that you would recommend to say someone's maybe a VP or, you know, senior director or whatever of FP&A and trying to find that first CFO role, any advice should offer them.

[00:31:00] Guest: Alex Holt: I mean, it's probably cliche, I think just just be curious, ask a lot of questions, try and get into different areas of a business. I'd like to think, you know, I think accountants get a bad, bad rap. Right. And I, you know, kind of purposefully pivoted from just doing traditional accounting to more, you know, financial operational roles. I spent a couple of years kind of as a consulting role within a real estate organization. So I think it's, uh. Get a wide variety of experiences and be available and open to roles that you might not have, have planned for, you know.

[00:31:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. You know, curiosity, being open to other roles. And, you know, just as far as you said, accountants get a bad rap. I, you know, not being an accountant, I like to make fun of them. If you haven't noticed, I have a little bit of fun. I have told you what the difference is between an accountant and an FP, and a professional is right. You heard that one.

[00:31:55] Guest: Alex Holt: Oh, this is the one one can get you in jail. Is it something or.

[00:31:59] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. When an accountant gets creative, they go to jail, right? When an RFP and a professional gets creative, they get promoted.

[00:32:05] Guest: Alex Holt: Yes, yes.

[00:32:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So that's kind of my joke. I get myself in trouble sometimes from accounts, I had one respond with, hey, we can be creative too. And I'm like, yes, you can just don't be too aggressive.

[00:32:17] Guest: Alex Holt: It's not worth the numbers, right?

[00:32:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, exactly. It's like a friend of mine said to his, a good friend of mine was telling me his sister called his brother, who was an accountant, and said, hey, I want to avoid these taxes. And he goes, no, you don't want to avoid them. You want to avert them. And she's like, well, what's the difference? And he was like, oh, about ten years.

[00:32:41] Guest: Alex Holt: Uh, for what it's worth, I feel like the accounting industry has some of the best jokes or dad jokes. You know, it's just it's it's a it's easy to to hack and have fun with.

[00:32:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. If you want dad jokes, there are plenty of them that excel in accounting. And I'm actually in, in the future going to interview a guy who does an entire Excel stand up comedy.

[00:33:00] Guest: Alex Holt: Nice.

[00:33:00] Host: Paul Barnhurst: There's actually two different guys I'm hoping to have on there, both to kind of do that, to have a little bit of fun. So yeah, those will be the episodes that you might not learn much, but hopefully you'll laugh.

[00:33:09] Guest: Alex Holt: You do.

[00:33:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, so before we go into some of our standard sections. You know, I noticed you've been a supporter of the brand on social media. You've been out there often sharing different days and talking about that. Why have you been such a big kind of supporter on social media? What's driving that?

[00:33:27] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. No, I've had a lot of fun. So, you know, I think it's a good way just to kind of flex a creative muscle. I think, uh, you may be able to tell I'm. I'm not just sitting in the corner and crunching numbers in a cube all day. I think it's fun. It's a great way not only just to remind folks about Milo's, you know, and that we're here and we'd love to serve you, but it's been a great way to meet new people. I mean, Paul, like you and I probably would, may not have met, you know, if it wasn't through the, the magic of LinkedIn and, and just kind of putting ourselves.

[00:34:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. I have a hard time seeing where we would have met if it wasn't for LinkedIn.

[00:34:07] Guest: Alex Holt: Right, right. So it's. Yeah, it's fun kind of personally to get to do it professionally. I think it helps Milo's I'm a sunk cost. You know, from a marketing standpoint. So it's been fun, so.

[00:34:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Good I like that. And, uh, anything you've learned or any recommendations is you people out there that, you know, they want to be a bigger supporter of their brand on social media, like anything you found that works well or any thoughts.

[00:34:33] Guest: Alex Holt: You know, I would just say like, put yourself out there. It's funny, kind of me, my mindset with it is probably back in 2022, uh, before I was at Milo's, uh, there were a handful of kinds of real estate and kind of business folks that I was following on Twitter. I was like, man, these folks, hey, they're super smart, and they are just sharing so much of what they know with the world, and they're getting to do cool stuff, you know what I mean? It's just neat. It's kind of like learning from others. And so, you know, as I came to Milo's, I think I posted once for fun. Fine. And, uh. And they got some good kind of feedback from it. And I was like, I was like, this is kind of fun. Let me, let me make this a goal to kind of, you know, once a week or I think most weeks I've done it kind of put myself out there and it's been again, I think it's it's been good not only for the brand, but then for me kind of personally and professionally to kind of stretch that, that muscle. So I would say, uh, it may feel awkward at first or maybe a lot of the time, but, um, the good outweighs the bad for kind of putting yourself out there in the world.

[00:35:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: 100% agree. And I obviously get a lot of people asking me about your content and putting it out there and yeah, the people always what will people think? Or what if it's not good? And I go, odds are when you start it's going to suck. The good news is nobody's going to see it. So just stick with it or get better with time. Go back and listen to the first podcast episode I ever did. It was awful, I loved it, the guest was great. I was not a good interviewer. So all right, so we're going to move into a couple standard sections we have. We have two here. One is some standard for questions we like to ask. And then we'll have a get to know you section or ask a few, uh, fun questions. So the first one is what is the number one technical skill that FP&A professionals should master.

[00:36:23] Guest: Alex Holt: It's got to be Excel. Early in my career it was fun. I had the margin in my day to really, you know, learn that tool and it's, it's fun and it's nerdy, but it's very, very helpful. And I think there's still so many people out there that you probably know how to, how to use it. But I don't. And so I think they think it's magic. But I'd say Excel.

[00:36:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It is funny how many people think when you see somebody that's a wizard in Excel and you're like, how did you do that? That's like magic. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. So it's definitely a very valuable skill. What about soft or human skill?

[00:36:59] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah, I would say sales or just like consensus building or you know, I think I underestimated that earlier in my career. I thought, hey, if I'm just going to present data and facts, the other side would, you know, magically come to my same conclusion. It's like, oh no, there's there's a, there's definitely a, a human side beyond just the numbers. So I would say it's, it's really kind of learning. Yeah. Sales or consensus building or persuasion however you want to.

[00:37:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Influencing persuasions, consensus building, whatever you want to call it. And how do you do that? How do you learn that? Like facts don't just speak for themselves, even though we often think they do. Right. You're like, well, they'll just be the facts and they'll agree. And often they look at you and go, I still don't agree. So what have you found? Works to kind of help sell and help build that consensus beyond just the data.

[00:37:55] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah, I'm still learning every day. Uh, but I would say, uh, pausing and try and put yourself in their shoes, not just go in thinking, hey, you've got you've got the answer that's going to solve all the, you know, whatever the issues are. Um, yeah, I would think it's just it's just reps and, uh, practice and probably face to face. I think that's another thing, you know? I'm a big fan of of face to face communication, in-person communication. And I think that's when you can really, you know, read body language or, you know, hear the inflection of someone's voice. Um, that's so important is you're trying to figure out kind of there, their point of view.

[00:38:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. I think you made a couple great points. There's one, you know, being able to pick up on cues that they give you that you can see from someone really putting yourself in their shoes, that empathy, those types of things, not just going in and being like, well, it's a great idea. So they'll agree with you. Um, I did that early in my career as well, and that idea never got implemented. Shocker.

[00:38:59] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah, I would say, you know, 2 or 3 roles ago, um, I was working inside a fortune 500 company where our main client was a fortune 500 bank and with, you know, great folks. And I just assumed, hey, these spreadsheets, this analysis is going to sell itself and how to manage who shared with me it's like, oh no, you really you've gotta you gotta help the other side kind of get to your conclusion. it's it's going to take some, some of that human element to kind of, to get there.

[00:39:33] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I'm curious, what do you see kind of moving forward in FP&A and as a profession as we move forward, what do you see as the biggest opportunity out there for us in FP&A automation?

[00:39:44] Guest: Alex Holt: Right. I mean that's probably like Excel, like probably one of your most favorite answers you get. But I mean personally I want to get away. We've got all these different systems and tools. And right now we probably spend too much time manually inputting data, consolidating data, things like that. And I really I've, I've got a hope and, uh, an aspiration to get more, more automated and put more thinking in the stuff instead of just moving numbers from this box into that box, or copying and pasting from this sheet to that sheet.

[00:40:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I mean, numbers show and I'm not sure I haven't seen them in the last year, but as much as a few years ago, you know, 50% of our time is on non value add activities or even sometimes I've seen 70 with 50% beyond data type activities, data cleaning and data prep. So there's a lot of opportunity to improve there for sure. All right. We move on to the get to know you section here. We get to ask a few more, uh, kind of personal questions to get to know the outlook a little better. What's your favorite hobby or passion? What do you like to do in your free time?

[00:40:48] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah, so I'm a big music fan, a big live music fan. When I grew up, my dad was actually a concert promoter, so I got to see a lot of cool, cool live music, kind of from an early age.

[00:41:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Favorite concert you got to see from an early age? Like, is there one that you.

[00:41:06] Guest: Alex Holt: We probably need to do a whole nother podcast episode.

[00:41:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I figured you might say that.

[00:41:11] Guest: Alex Holt: I would say I got to see, uh, Tom petty, uh, back in the early 2000. Uh, that was pretty cool. Those are pretty good seats for that. And then, um, one thing I didn't appreciate at the time, but the band rush, who rush is from Canada.

[00:41:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I've been in a rush. My brother's favorite band was Rush. Big open for them. This would have been in the late 80s. I went, I was like 14. And so it was before the Indoor Clean Air Act.

[00:41:39] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah.

[00:41:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Everybody was. That thing was just a cloud of smoke.

[00:41:43] Guest: Alex Holt: So I went literally, literally Mr. Big open for I saw Mr. Big on that roll of the band store.

[00:41:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah I was. So we were probably around the same time because. Yeah. That's it. You open for him.

[00:41:52] Guest: Alex Holt: Right on. Um, yeah. So big, big live music fan Birmingham. We've got tons of great venues and shows. So yeah, I would say my guilty pleasure is going to see a live show. Uh, versus I don't, I don't golf or hunt. So I like going to see shows.

[00:42:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Nice I like it. All right. So what's your favorite hamburger from Milo's and what makes a great hamburger.

[00:42:17] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah. So I think there's got to have a really good sauce or condiment. Just whether I'm at Milo's or at home, you've got to have the right, you know, something to to help with a burger. So we've got just the classic cheeseburger. It is great. Um, it's a 100% ground beef burger. And we put onions on it, a pickle. We've got a special sauce that we're again, we've got a rabid and loyal fan base. Um, so I would say that. And then if you want to, we've got kind of a secret menu. You can ask for grilled onions. That's that, a little. Little.

[00:42:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. The secret menu I know in and out does that here. So I know what you're talking about. All right. You're a big music fan. So you'll like this question. If you had a theme song playing every time you entered a room. What would that song be?

[00:43:02] Guest: Alex Holt: Paul, this is a toughie, and I'm going to give a two part answer. So my kind of hipster answer is going to be a Japan Droid's a great duo out of Canada. The House that Heaven built is just a banger. It is a really great song. Um, got to see them live a handful of times, but I would say then uh, secondary would be AC, DC thunderstruck. I mean, just another ripper. Uh, when I'm working out, that's definitely on the The Workout playlist.

[00:43:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Something tells me we grew up around the same time. Yeah. All right. If aliens landed tomorrow, what's the first snack you're going to offer them?

[00:43:44] Guest: Alex Holt: It's going to be Milo seasoned French fries.

[00:43:46] Speaker3: How did I get something?

[00:43:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: From my.

[00:43:49] Guest: Alex Holt: Great crinkle cut fry? We've got a special, uh, kind of orange dust salt. So I'd say we're going to. Milo's.

[00:43:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, well, when they do land and you take them there, let me know how it goes. We'll do another episode about that in music. All right. As we wrap up here, just just another question or two. First one is if you could offer advice to our audience to be a better business partner today, something they should start doing, or maybe even stop doing. What advice would you give?

[00:44:17] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah, just put yourself in your business partner's shoes. You know, I think as finance professionals, we can just kind of go to the analysis or the spreadsheet or the numbers and probably, you know, think we know the answer. Why? But I think it's, try and put yourself in their shoes. Be curious. Ask a lot of questions. Yeah. That would be my piece of advice.

[00:44:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Gotta put yourself in their shoes. Ask questions. Be curious. I've heard all that great advice. Last thing. If someone wants to get in contact with you or learn more about you, what's the best way for them to do that?

[00:44:49] Guest: Alex Holt: Yeah, check me out on LinkedIn. Alex Holt and, uh, yeah, it's been fun kind of getting to know folks there.

[00:44:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. Well, thank you for coming on the show today. Alex, it's been fun chatting with you. And, make sure you play that theme song on the way downstairs today.

[00:45:05] Guest: Alex Holt: You all right? Thanks, Paul. It's been great.

[00:45:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks, Alex.

[00:45:08] Guest: Alex Holt: Take care.

[00:45:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz, and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on earmark and contact me the show host for further details.