How FMI and Ian Schnoor Are Helping Financial Professionals Build Better Models Around the Globe
In this episode of Financial Modeler’s Corner, host Paul Barnhurst (aka The FP&A Guy) welcomes Ian Schnoor, Executive Director of the Financial Modeling Institute. The conversation focuses on the growing role of financial modeling in uncertain markets, the expanding reach of FMI, and the importance of structure, clarity, and accreditation in building better business decisions. Ian shares practical insights from his global work, recent collaborations, and lessons from building multiple businesses.
Ian Schnoor is the Executive Director of the Financial Modeling Institute (FMI), the only organization offering globally recognized financial modeling accreditation. He founded The Marquee Group, which was acquired by Training the Street in 2023. Ian has trained thousands of professionals in modeling, valuation, and Excel. He teaches at Queen’s University, holds a CFA charter, and began his career in investment banking with Citigroup and BMO. He’s focused on raising the standard of modeling across the world through education and certification.
Expect to Learn:
Why financial modeling is essential during market volatility
How FMI is earning global recognition from top firms
The impact of adding financial modeling to the CFA program
Insights from FMI’s expansion into China and India
Three principles for building a successful business
A creative use of Excel to solve a real-world inventory challenge
Here are a few quotes from the episode:
“A good model helps you ask the right ‘what if’ questions, not deliver perfect answers.” - Ian Schnoor
“The true purpose of a model is to give decision-makers confidence in uncertain times.” - Ian Schnoor
“Getting the AFM means you’ve shown up, done the work, and proved your skills under pressure.” - Ian Schnoor
Ian Schnoor shared powerful insights on the role of modeling in today’s uncertain world.
He emphasized clarity, structure, and the value of accreditation in building trust and better decisions. His global work is helping elevate modeling into a true professional discipline.
A strong reminder that great models lead to great leadership.
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Website - https://fminstitute.com/
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In today’s episode:
[01:27] - Welcome back to the Episode
[04:04] - Financial modeling during market volatility
[08:01] - Updates from FMI and its global growth
[11:47] - Accreditation and why it matters
[16:41] - Partnerships in China and India
[22:02] - Excel World Cup and the global community
[24:22] - CFA Institute collaboration
[28:23] - Global expansion stories
[32:34] - Three principles for business success
[37:23] - Real-life Excel project: Baby blanket logistics
[42:48] - Rapid-fire: tools and trends in modeling
[47:37] - Final advice for modelers
Full Show Transcript
[00:01:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Welcome to Financial Modelers Corner. I am your host, Paul Barnhurst. This is the podcast where we talk all about the art and science of financial modeling with distinguished financial modelers from around the globe. The Financial Modelers Corner podcast is brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. FMI offers the most respected accreditations in financial modeling, and that's why I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler, and I recommend you do the same. This week I'm thrilled to welcome back on the show for a third time. He's been on the show in. Welcome back.
[00:02:04] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Paul is thrilled to be back. So great to be back on the show with you today.
[00:02:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, really excited to have you. So I'm going to give a little bit of background about Ian for those who don't know him. And then we got a lot to cover. You've been up to a lot since the last time we chatted, so I'm excited to get into it. So it is the executive director of the Financial Modeling Institute, the world's only financial modeling accreditation organization. He created the Financial Modeling Practical Skills Module for CFA Institute, which is now a mandatory part of the CFA program, in 2002, and founded the marquee Group, a leading provider of financial modeling, training and consulting, which was sold to Training the Street in 2023. It is a passionate teacher who has trained thousands of students and Professionals all over the world in financial modeling, valuation and excel in. Teaches a course called Advanced Financial Modeling at Queen's University and is a past recipient of the professor of the Year Award in the Master of Finance program at the Smith School of Business. He began his career in the investment banking department at Citigroup and BMO Capital Markets. He holds a Bachelor's of Commerce honors degree with academic distinction, and he's also a CFA charterholder. How was that for an introduction?
[00:03:34] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Wow. That's just thank you, Paul. That is blow my mind. Appreciate that. That is a kind of you. But thank you for the warm welcome and having me back.
[00:03:42] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Excited to have you back. You know, I want to start. It'll probably be a few weeks before we release this, but in the last couple of weeks have been a very rocky road, as we know. Beginning of April, the US President Trump did tariffs and we saw how the markets responded. So, you know, the general economy with that is definitely showing some signs of concern and turmoil. What does financial modeling fit into all this? What's the role modelers need to play in this very uncertain and turmoil that we're going?
[00:04:12] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Absolutely. I happen to be in Wall Street in New York last week on Wall Street, when the markets were crashing on Thursday and Friday. It was a very interesting and ominous time to be there. And with all the volatility, you can imagine someone saying, why the heck would I build a financial model? The markets are crazy. Everything is impossible to see the future. Why should I be building a model? I think this is the most important reason and the most important time when it's important to have financial models and people can see that. If you understand the point of modeling, modeling is not building forecasts. It's not about getting the perfect answer. We're not trying to be soothsayers. We're not building forecasts to see if we can come up with the perfect prediction and then say, after five years. Aha! I nailed it perfectly. That's not the purpose of modeling. Right. The purpose of modeling is to say, if this happens on my business, what will we look like? And if something else happens, how will we fare? Will we survive? So knowing that we are going through a very rocky period, possibly tariffs, possibly no tariffs, possible changes to our cost structure, possible changes to our labor rates. It's so critical to know can we as a company survive this sort of turmoil and this up and down. So having a good model allows us to say, well, if we're hit by rising costs because we know where we buy our raw materials from, if our costs go up by x percent, we can't survive or our cash flows are going to go down to far. As a result, we're going to have to make some contingency plans. We're going to have to change the rest of our operating model. And, you know, change our other costs in some way. Or, you know, again, it allows us to know what if these things do unfold in different ways, what will we look like? How will we perform, and then what actions could we potentially plan in advance to mitigate them? And so, more important than ever to have a sense during these rocky periods I think.
[00:06:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Oh I agree. I mean, you think back to Covid and everybody was doing scenario modeling. Well, what happens if it's three months that were shut down? You know, for three weeks or what happens if we do this or that or if we start, you know, restaurants, if we start delivering to houses, how much can we keep and running a ton of scenarios and similar things here. It's just different inputs.
[00:06:30] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Exactly. Back in 2018, I don't believe there was anybody on the planet that was maybe, maybe a couple people, but I don't really believe anyone seriously was predicting a massive pandemic that was going to shut down the world for, you know, in the way that it did. And the same thing. I don't think a year ago, people were predicting that we'd be in this sort of a trade situation with threats of tariffs and massive stock market swings. That's not the point. We're not trying to say that we were bad modelers because we missed those events, but now that they're happening, we can say, okay, this is our world today. How do I incorporate that information to help me think about what might happen into the future, and how can I properly navigate it to, you know, to get through this turbulent time?
[00:07:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. I mean, as you point out, it's not about being exactly right. It's about helping the business make better decisions and provide as much clarity as you can. Because if any of us forecast perfectly, we wouldn't be sitting here. We wouldn't have made a fortune on the stock market.
[00:07:25] Guest: Ian Schnoor: I would hope so. I would hope that if you could forecast perfectly, you would not be doing this job. You'd be, you know, sitting somewhere in Hawaii or in the Caribbean and just sipping your margaritas and buying the stock that you knew was going to go up the next day. And that's not the point. Exactly. So we're trying to say, you know, gosh, if if tariffs do hit, we're going to have to shut down our highest cost division or we're going to have to lay off 20 people because we won't be able to keep them or whatever, etc., etc.. But let's build some plans around, you know, and then, as you know, the days and the weeks and the months unfold, we'll see where we're at and which plan do we follow through with?
[00:08:00] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Exactly. So I think we covered on the tariffs I'd love to know. Just kind of stepping back. What have you been up to since last time we chatted? I know there's been a lot going on. So tell us what FMI 's been doing and what have you been up?
[00:08:12] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Yeah. Listen, as I said, first of all, thrilled to be back. Thrilled, first of all, that this podcast and your show, um, has been going so well, you're getting better and better as a host, which I love to see as well. And it's been awesome. And, you know, FMI has Financial Modeling Institute and has, as you know, been a proud sponsor of your show since day one and very proud of that. My life has been exciting and busy. Um, I have been working with our team. Our team at the Financial Modeling Institute keeps growing every year. And we are, as you talked about earlier, building the world's only financial modeling accreditation organization. We have candidates in more than 120 countries all over the world that are looking to learn, you know, work really hard and then prove through rigorous examinations that they have exceptional financial modeling skills. So we've been building and elevating our operational practices and our sales and marketing and our digital presence. Um, and really growing into this role as the world's only financial modeling accreditation body. Last week, I attended Quinnipiac University's Game Forum, a massive student finance conference in New York, and FMI was invited to have a booth. A CFA Institute was there. The organization was there. Garp, the risk management body was there. We were all on a panel discussion together. So it's really nice to be building and growing our name all over the world. It's been a lot of fun.
[00:09:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And what are you hearing from employers now that it's been out there long enough? It's starting to become more well known, right? 7 or 8 years ago when you first started it. It's like FMI and accreditation. What is this? I've never heard of it. What are you starting to hear from employers now? How do you think that that side of it's growing, right. Of getting that recognition to say this means something.
[00:09:59] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Yeah, absolutely. So on one hand, it's going very well. On the other hand, we still have a lot of work to do. And these things take time. I mean, building an accreditation organization is not something that happens overnight, in fact. Other accreditation bodies will tell you that if you're less than ten years old as an accreditation, you're still a baby. And we're, you know, eight ish years old now. Um, and definitely getting a lot more traction. Two examples, you know, PwC and Deloitte in many of their offices all over the world make the, uh, the AFM the advanced financial model accreditation, the one that you set. A lot of PwC and Deloitte offices make that mandatory for people who want to work on a deals team. Why? Because they know if their employees have better modeling skills and are more confident with their modeling, that it will allow them to build better tools, make better decisions, and support their clients better, and we are starting to see traction with more and more organizations wanting to de-risk their processes and elevate their truly elevate their teams. So again, this is part of our you know, our five year plan is to continue to build awareness, traction and interest. At the end of the day, one of our big goals, our big motivations for doing this is to truly elevate the discipline of modeling and elevate people's skills and de-risk a lot of what happens in the capital markets. And we believe that we're on track for that.
[00:11:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, I love something you said at de-risk, because if I'm hiring somebody, I want to know they're good at modeling, and I see one resume where they've set for and passed the advanced financial modeler and another where they haven't. It does give me some comfort. You know, there's going to be some tests. The one who didn't take it might be better, but at least I know the one who took it has a certain baseline. It's really hard to determine that from a resume, right? 100% the other one have that baseline 100%.
[00:11:47] Guest: Ian Schnoor: You're absolutely right. I mean, getting the AFM accreditation is not the only way to become an excellent modeler. There are a lot of people that are excellent modelers without an accreditation, but it's hard to necessarily convey that or prove that. And a lot of people here's the thing. You know, as you know, we've talked about financial modeling as a discipline. Part of my frustration in getting in getting together with a bunch of people, you know, almost ten years ago and dreaming this up, was it frustrated us that in the world of professions, right. If you think of all the, you know, key professions out there, if you need a lawyer, you can't hire me to do your legal work. You can't hire me to do your accounting work. I mean, you could, but you don't know what you're going to get. Now, I can't represent you as an accountant or an engineer or as an architect. I don't have a certification in those areas. I might be a smart guy and understand those topics, but I'm not allowed to do that work. But anyone has been historically allowed to build financial models, which does incorporate a lot of risk into the system. So getting recognition from a globally recognized badge, as it's becoming more and more, does signal that this person will have excellent modeling skills. And we're very proud of that.
[00:12:59] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And I have those conversations regularly with people. I have people all the time reaching out to me what certifications, what should I do and kind of walk through. And I go, look, especially if you're wanting, you know, an FPA three statement models or table stakes for smaller companies, larger companies, you may never build one. So I tell someone, look, if you want to do any FPA in a smaller company, you want to give them comfort that you can build a model. This is a great way to go. Now if you want some training, different courses, here's some great courses. But if you want that validation or accreditation, then look at this. And a lot of people are like, oh that's a good idea. And you know what I found is right, very reasonable from a cost standpoint as well. So there's a lot to be.
[00:13:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah.
[00:13:37] Guest: Ian Schnoor: And by the way, the secret sauce to the AFM accreditation is really just that by putting an exam date in the calendar, we're forcing people to study and to practice, right? I mean, as, as you know, and you mentioned in my bio, I mean, I was a trainer, a financial modeling trainer for 20 years. I had a training firm that I sold to a private equity firm in North Carolina. I love training and I love teaching, and I've taught 20 or 30,000 people. But as a trainer, I never knew if that person would become good or not, because nobody gets good at anything in life. By watching the course, I could watch eight hours of golf videos. I would learn a lot about golf in eight hours. I'm not going to be a good golfer after watching those videos, or I might do a weekend course on a golf course. I might go do a weekend session on a golf course with a pro and swing club for a few hours, and learn a lot about golf. But what's going to make me a strong golfer is going every night for two hours to the driving range and, you know, playing 2 or 3 full rounds a week and then three months later being able to golf a round of 85. So I'm not a professional yet, but I'm a good golfer and that's what accreditation does. It forces people to show up when no one's looking. Do the work when no one's looking. Put in the time. Roll up your sleeves. Have fun with it. Practice, practice and you will become so. Having a date in the calendar for an exam is just a way to force you to actually internalize it and learn.
[00:15:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: There's a lot of truth to that. I mean, so when you have that date, all sudden you're like, oh, wait, I have to do it. I gotta find time. It's easy to procrastinate, but dates often force us. They're a forcing function in many ways.
[00:15:16] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Exactly, exactly. It really is. You know how many of us buy videos or buy tutorials or sign up for something with good intention, and then life gets in the way and you don't do it. But somehow, when you have an exam in your calendar for whatever it is we tend to, we tend to get there. Most of us tend to get there and get to the finish line.
[00:15:33] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I think the prime example. Have you ever bought a digital course that you didn't finish?
[00:15:37] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Yeah, I've bought digital courses that I barely started. Right.
[00:15:41] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I think 90% of those are never finished.
[00:15:44] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Sure. You get through a couple, you know, you get through and they're great, but we all need a bit of a kick right in the backside to to get us there because otherwise we get distracted. It's just human nature. And so having an exam just forces you to internalize it and learn it. And you know, people are so proud when they get through. Like you the AFM accreditation, we love that there are four days a year at FMI that we love. Those are the exam early release dates when the results go out. Because our team follows people whose results have been released and incredible LinkedIn posts go up all over the world. People are so thrilled and pleased and not to us. They're pleased with themselves. They're they're so happy that they managed to climb this bit of a mountain and learn this skill. And they feel so good about it. And, you know, we take a lot of pleasure by by seeing people feel very, very, very proud of themselves for getting there.
[00:16:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. No. And you should I mean, it's a big accomplishment. I'm curious as you look forward to, you know, the future of FMI . This is about eight years old now. What has you most excited about or what? What are you looking at and going, wow, I just can't, you know, can't wait for that. Or, you know, kind of as you look forward.
[00:16:56] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Well, I mean, and I see, you know, I know you were going to talk about these things a little after a couple of things. Get me really excited. First of all, you know, solving this riddle that we had started with, right, is why is it that if you want to be an architect or a lawyer or a doctor, you can't just do it? You need to kind of, um, learn, but then prove to a board some sort of a standards body that you actually have those skills. And we're trying hard to elevate this profession of modeling and, and have it viewed on the same, same plane, the same playing field. And I see us on the trajectory, you know, of getting there. So that's really exciting to see it. And we're building this as a community platform, meaning we want this to be as inclusive. Anyone who wants to participate in the world of modeling is welcome in the community. We are trying to make this a very open, inclusive space, a safe, comfortable space, and that's working well. So very, very proud of that.
[00:17:50] Guest: Ian Schnoor: And where do I see the other thing that makes me very proud is, you know, you touched on it because, you know, as the value of the badge continues to grow and people recognize that, you know, that AFM badge really means something. It means that wherever you are in the world, you can put yourself on equal footing. We have a lot of candidates. A lot of our candidates come from developed countries like the US and Europe and Canada, but we have a lot, a lot of candidates coming from developing parts of the world in Africa, in Nigeria, in, um, you know, we signed a partnership with the stock exchange in India. I was in China last year, which we'll talk about, and I get excited thinking about the idea that people in these parts of the world that are really working hard to differentiate themselves, can elevate their skills and put themselves on a level playing field with someone in New York realizes, oh, this person obviously has excellent modeling skills because they got this recognized badge.
[00:18:45] Host: Paul Barnhurst:While my background is in FP&A. I am also passionate about financial modeling. Like many financial Modelers, I was self-taught. Then I discovered the Financial Modeling Institute, the organization that offers the advanced financial modeling program. I am a proud holder of the AFM. Preparing for the AFM exam made me a better modeler. If you want to improve your modeling skills, I recommend the AFM program. Podcast listeners. Save 15% on the AFM program. Just use Code Podcast.
[00:19:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, you know, one thing that's fun for me when you talk about the different countries is there's a lot of people who take advantage of the podcast discount and sign up from listening to the podcast. It's always fun to see all the different countries. I love seeing oh wow, that's somewhere I wouldn't have expected her. How many are different? I mean, I think just from the podcast, we probably had 30, 35 different countries that have signed up for the program, and so that is fun to see. I definitely know what you're talking about.
[00:19:53] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Yeah. It's incredible. Like I do. You know, every month I do a Q&A session for people that are, um, preparing for the exam. We did one this morning. Um, and we always go around and ask people to say where they're from, and it's amazing. There will often be people from 30 or 40 different countries in the, uh, the webinar from all over North America, South America today, we had, you know, someone from Bolivia and from the Caribbean and from the US and Canada and from Europe and Africa. Even sometimes people show up in Singapore or Australia when it may be like one in the morning. And I'd be like, what are you doing? You should be sleeping. But, uh, yeah. No. It's amazing. Um, it's amazing to watch. You know, it's one of the few skills as well that is truly global. And literally it is almost identical anywhere you go in the world. So when you know how to build a model, you can literally model an American company, a British company, or a Chinese company. It doesn't matter because financial statements look almost exactly the same anywhere in the world. So the art and science of forecasting it is the same. So it truly can take you anywhere.
[00:20:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: No, it's a good point. I mean, right, the three statements apply globally. It's not like you go to China and they have this, you know, two statements or you go over to Africa. It's like, well you have six statements.
[00:21:09] Guest: Ian Schnoor: They have 116. Yeah. Exactly. Oh what are your additional 3 or 4 statements. Yeah I know it is. With the convergence of accounting standards. Most countries in the world of course, as you know, use IFRS. The US does not use US GAAP, but US GAAP and IFRS have become very closely converged. And then of course in India they use IAS. The Indian accounting standards in China are Chinese accounting standards. But they're very similar. They're very similar. So when you look at a public company's historical financial statements, oh you'll be oh the cache line is a little lower down or. Oh, they moved this here, but if you understand us GAAP, you will in a moment understand the financial statements of any company in the world.
[00:21:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great point. So I want to ask you a couple questions on some of the things you've been up to. I know some of them. I've seen them from LinkedIn. We've talked a little about them. I think our audience would find it interesting. So first, you've attended the Financial Modeling World Cup the last two years. I know you've given some training sessions on that and get your thoughts on what that experience has been like. What's it like being there with a bunch of Excel nerds?
[00:22:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Oh gosh. Well, I love it.
[00:22:16] Guest: Ian Schnoor: With my people, which has been a lot of fun. I actually, I will lump in a couple of things, you know, since the end of Covid, two fantastic events that, you know, your listeners might be interested in have popped up. There is the Financial modeling World Cup, which, which has for the last couple of years hosted, what do they call it, their training camp. It's every December. They run a training camp. It's been in Las Vegas and then the training.
[00:22:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah.
[00:22:39] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Exactly. And it's been in Las Vegas. Um, and we're, they're a partner of ours as well. And they do a two day kind of training camp, and then they use the third day to run the finals of the Financial Modeling World Cup, um, championship. The reason they do in Las Vegas is because there is an esports arena in, in the, in the Luxor hotel that they have used, and it's been fun catching up with you there. There is another event, uh, which has been in London the last couple of years, which is the Global Excel Summit, which I've had the privilege of speaking at and participating in. And that's also a fantastic event. There's been some overlap and a lot of different people. That's just a, um, a conference. There's no competition as well. But also, you know, I love being at both of them because the attendees and if your listeners are thinking about maybe attending one of them, I highly encourage it. You'll learn a lot. You'll realize that you're part of a community of people who use Excel, people who use spreadsheets, people who do planning work, forecasting work, modeling work. You'll meet some great people. It's a wonderful community. Um, there's a lot to learn, and, um, and I have really enjoyed what I've taken away is just the passion of people who go of really wanting to, no pun intended, but to excel in their craft and to become better and to and to share. You know, I think you'll agree with this. People in the community are very, very eager and keen to share their knowledge and to help others learn. And it's been very validating and really, really a lot of fun to be part of that.
[00:24:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, no, I agree with you. The community is definitely willing and open and they want to share. And so yeah, I agree. If you want to improve your Excel skills, be around other Excel people, build a network in that area. Either of those events are great. So another thing I know you didn't. I think it's been almost two years now when uh, CFA over did the level one and they added a practical skill section, the financial modeling, which I know you guys were involved in with them for that. What's been the feedback on that? What have you heard? Kind of how how people have embraced that change.
[00:24:41] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Yeah. I will share this with you. Um, it's been fascinating. So we've had a long standing relationship with the CFA Institute. We started working with them in 2018. The former CEO, uh, his name is Paul Smith. He's a British gentleman, but he's been living in Hong Kong for, you know, 30 years. He his term ended and then he joined our team. So he's on our board. And I talked to him all the time. He wanted us to get closer to CFA. Um, but then Covid hit and they, um, and then I maintained a close relationship with the current executive team. They reached out to me a couple of years ago and said, Ian, top secret. You can't tell anyone or, uh, or you got big problems on your hands. Uh, but they basically said, we got a secret. We're going to make the biggest change in, um, in 30 years in the CFA program. And that is we're going to start including practical skills. So everybody who goes through the CFA program will have to do the standard, um, body of knowledge, the standard academic knowledge I did. I have my CFA charter. It's great. Did it a long time ago. It's it has always been a multiple choice exam. And they said you know technical skills are getting really important. So we're going to make it mandatory for everyone going through a CFA level to also do a technical program.
[00:25:53] Guest: Ian Schnoor: And one of the most important skills that we believe people need is financial modeling. They basically asked if we would take if they could use the videos, the video tutorial learning series, part of the advanced financial model or our own AFM accreditation. If they could use those videos on the CFA site, I said sure. Then they asked if I could rerecord them, so I did. So the exact same videos live effectively on the CFA portal. There's no exam, there's no exam, but candidates have to go through it. Otherwise they will not release your CFA exam results. So they're very serious about it. So now we've got about 100,000 people a year all over the world doing their CFA studies and then doing this, going through our learning materials afterwards. Um, the feedback has been fantastic. The feedback has been incredible. And I was at a CFA internal conference in the fall, and they told all the CFA leaders all over the world that it is now the top rated. The number one rated component of the entire CFA program is the Practical Skills module. So I'm very proud of that. I'll actually read you something here. Um, you're reminding me I just jumped up. So I'm getting a lot of great feedback. But the CFA is very, very proud that this is now very, very well received. I just pulled this up.
[00:27:10] Guest: Ian Schnoor: If you're watching this, I got a card in the mail from someone in Austria, a holiday card. And I'm very proud of this. And the CFA loved it. He wanted to write me a note at the year end, just to say how grateful he was for the practical skills module. And basically, he said the skills he learned played a really important role in his achievement professionally. Um, it allowed him to build a much better financial forecast for an investment project that got approved by the investor and by the relevant authorities, and it would not have been possible without the, um, the PSM, the practical skills module. So I was very proud of that. Um, and this is why I say that, you know, modeling, you know, is important not just for people. So, the AFM program, of course, you learn to build a three statement model, but it's not about the three statements. As you know, it's so much about design and communication and the organization of it and the layout. So you might not need a balance sheet or a cash flow statement specifically, but you do need to have flow and organization. And, you know, he was saying that because he did that, he believes his project got approved and went through. And I really took a lot of very, very proud to hear that and very pleased.
[00:28:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: No. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And that's amazing that it's, you know, the number one program there that people love it. I mean I'm not surprised but just great in such a short time that it's become so popular. You've done great work there with CFA. And kind of speaking of that, I know that a few months back you went to India looking at launching a partnership with their, I think, their Stock Exchange Academy over there, if I remember right. What was that like? Tell me a little bit about that.
[00:28:45] Guest: Ian Schnoor: I mean incredible, I'll lump a couple together. I mean, I spent most of August in mainland China, and then I spent a good chunk of November in India. In China, we struck up a partnership with the department that manages the CFA relationship right now in the country. So, you know, they work closely with the government. They manage the CFA relationship in China, and they will be managing the FMI partnership relationship in China. The country is very, very keen to elevate the modeling skills in China. And so we have an incredible partnership there. That was a phenomenal trip. And by the same token, we struck a partnership with the National Stock Exchange. They have an academy, a learning academy in India to launch and to roll out FMI accreditation programs in India. You know, being in those two countries is so eye opening. I had never been to either place before. First of all, I love talking with the people, meeting the people, experiencing the cultures, but seeing the real passion and hunger. And you know, you know, I'm in Toronto, Canada, and I know you're in the US and have a lot of listeners. I loved seeing just the real, the real hunger. And not that not that we don't have that same passion in Canada or the US right now or, but in some parts of the world, that passion feels like it's burning a little brighter. They're trying really hard to kind of elevate themselves and get to a different spot. It's not hard for them to remember they themselves, you know, were impoverished or their parents were, and they're working really hard to kind of get to a different spot in their lives. And they know that having this, this globally recognized skill, that they know that having this important Excel skill and being able to build models is a tool that will help them. And it's really fun to work with people that are so passionate about improving their lives.
[00:30:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I could see where that would be really rewarding. And if I remember right, I think they gave you a name in China. Chinese name?
[00:30:43] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Yeah.
[00:30:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: How do you say it?
[00:30:45] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Do you want to say it?
[00:30:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: No. You go. I'll let you say it.
[00:30:48] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Alright, so as you've mentioned, my name in English is Ian Schnurr. Ian Schnurr. And when I was in China, our partners had a sort of a bit of a light bulb moment. And I will say it for those who can actually, you know, speak Mandarin, I hope I say it in a way that you can understand. But Ian Schnurr in English, they realized a great Chinese name would be Yin. So it starts with ying ying ying cheng nü. So ying cheng nü sounds kind of like Ian Schnurr and what they ying Cheng nü means sort of a hero or a prominent person that comes bringing bringing promise of future success. Excess, something like that. I'm probably missing a little bit, but they thought that based on the way it sounded similar to my, you know, my, uh, my English name. And you know, what we were building there together that they that that was fitting. It's funny, we had a lot of meetings with government officials when we were in China, and I would introduce myself as Yang Chenghua. They love that. And many of them kind of their mouths opened and they said to me, oh my gosh, your Chinese name is so much better than my Chinese name. And, uh, and so I was definitely honored. Um, do not ask me to write it because I can't do that yet. But I do know how to say it. Um, and I can recognize it, but it was fun to be embraced that way.
[00:32:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: We won't ask you to write it, but love that. Thank you for sharing that story. I want to switch gears here a little bit. So we've talked about some of the things you've been up to. But I know recently you shared your kind of top tips about building a great business. And I think a lot of our guests I know, a lot of people I interview you do run their own consulting. Sometimes training. Right? A lot of people to do modeling. You go out on your own. So I'd love for you to maybe share that advice. I know you've run several businesses over the years. What were those three tips? Can you share that with your audience?
[00:32:46] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Absolutely. You know, I mean, I've now had the great honor and the great opportunity in my life to build a couple businesses. You know, I view like for me, excel and modeling have been a means to an end. Yes, I like modeling. I don't do modeling anymore. Um, I used to love tinkering and building and, you know, I still do like to play around with that, but it's been an opportunity for me to teach, to become, you know, to help enable other people. It's been an opportunity for me to help build a couple businesses. And, you know, in hindsight, I put up the post. I put up a post about a month ago talking about because I get asked all the time I had been asked at, I was running, I was I was at a CFA event, speaking at a CFA event, and someone came to me and said, I really like, you know, the businesses you've built and, you know, do you have any tips? I'm thinking of starting a business. And I thought a lot about what what have I done and what do I stand for? And you know, that I think works in any bit. Now, this might not resonate with everybody, but this, you know, I think resonates with me. And it kind of boiled down to three things. First was, you know, I talked about excellence in everything you do. Right? Like excellence in in everything in the way you write emails, in the way you respond and, you know, just showing up on time and, you know, in the quality of your product and how you speak it and in the packaging of your product.
[00:34:10] Guest: Ian Schnoor: And if you try to try to put yourself, um, that doesn't mean things have to be super expensive, but go the extra mile, spend the extra 15 minutes being really honest, being consistent. Um, so to me, that's what excellent means, very important. And I second one was care. I said, cares is try to take care of your clients and and then even even better, if you have a team, a team even better care of your team. I mean, it was um, um, mentioned in that post that I it was a fun fact that nobody probably knew that I had a chance to meet Richard Branson when I was in university. He, he had come to my hometown to to receive an award. And after the award ceremony, all of the, you know, the older gentlemen in tuxedos wanted to go out with him, but he didn't want any of that. He wanted to go out with the table of students that were there. So he took us out to a local bar, a pub, and we couldn't get in because it was it was full. So he spoke to some bouncers at the side door and before we knew it, whatever got exchanged, we were all going in and we hung out with him, you know, at, um, at a bar for a couple of hours.
[00:35:19] Guest: Ian Schnoor: But, you know, he's known for saying, take even better care of your employees and then they will take care of your business, take care of your people, um, take care of your people. Your clients, um, write thank yous, being empathetic, listening to them. It goes a long, long way. Turnover is brutal. Um, of turnover of clients, turnover of of employees. And, um, and the third one is, is, is to be clear clarity. Right. Um, make sure that you are clear. What does your business offer. What do you do. What's your expertise. What's the businesses. Make sure everyone can speak to it. What's the purpose? The mission. What are you out there to do as an organization? Um, because it's it's not always clear. Sometimes it's confusing. We all must see businesses at times and scratch our heads and say, what are they doing? Like what is their business? And I get to a website and I don't understand what they do. And I just feel like if you're clear, if you care and if you try and show up on time and be excellent, you're, uh, you got a pretty good chance. You got a you got a better chance than if you don't. So I, I shared that, and I, um, you know, those things go a long way with me.
[00:36:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Bad financial models can lead to bad decisions or worse. So, how do you minimize the risk of a bad model? You make sure the models you build are great. The Financial Modeling Institute developed the Advanced Financial Modeler accreditation program to help modelers like you. The AFM program offers a step-by-step approach to building world-class financial models. The program ensures that you know the best practices in model design and structure, and will help you brush up on your Excel and accounting skills to be the one on your team to build great models. If you want to impress your boss and your clients, get AFM accredited. Podcast listeners. Save 15% on the AFM program. Just use Code Podcast at www.fminstitute.com/podcast.
[00:37:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well great advice. Thank you for sharing that. I think that's something many people in our audience will find beneficial. I know I enjoyed it when I saw the post and read it. This next one's kind of a fun question that we've added since last time you were on 011. Okay, so what's the most unique or fun thing you've created a model for or built in Excel for your personal life?
[00:37:47] Guest: Ian Schnoor: All right, here's what I actually, um, I'm just thinking of the most unique thing. All right. Let me share with you the problem, and then I'll tell you how I solved it. So many, many, many years ago, my wife ran. She had purchased a very small business that made personalized baby blankets. Okay, I'm creating a bit of a case study here, and I'd love to know how you or others would think about it. She had a business that created personalized baby blankets. So let's say you had a friend that had a baby. Um, you'd go on the website. There were four color options, basically, for the blanket. There were two kind of boy colors and two girl colors. But in theory you could order whichever one you want. So you chose which of the four blanket colors you wanted, and then you had to tell us the name of it. Um, and each blanket had, like, a different animal on it. Okay. But then you would put like if the, if the, if the person's name was Benjamin or Paul, you put the name in and then, um, they'd get orders every day. Now a blue blanket, if you ordered a blue blanket, then the order of the letters, it might be, you know, if it was a six letter name, you know, or Benjamin, then the order of on a blue blanket, the letters might be a red, followed by a yellow, followed by a green. Like it was always the same pattern of letters on a blue blanket. Whereas if you ordered a purple blanket, the letters might be, you know, white, pink, gray, black, and then follow that sequence. So they had a problem because they knew that they would have to order, you know, 100 stock of each blanket, but it doesn't make sense to cut 100 A's and 100 B's and 100 C's and 100 D's like they needed an inventory of letters. It doesn't make sense to cut, you know, the same number of letters in a dozen different colors because you don't use many X's. You don't use many. You know.
[00:39:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: There's not as many X's and Q's in people's names as there is in A or an I. Exactly.
[00:39:37] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Exactly. So they wanted to make sure that they weren't wasting and they had, you know, bins and buckets with a reasonable number, you know, of, of A's in red. And so, so I created a tool for them that allowed them to say, okay, at the end of every week, type in all the names that were ordered. Um, so I had four Paul blankets and six Rebecca's and nine and of the Rebecca's one was purple, one was pink. And then, um, it would go through with an engine and figure out, okay. And then what it would tell them. And their Sowers is that the Sowers needed to cut 17 red A's and six, you know, white A's and you know, no B's and etc.. So they knew exactly how many letters they needed in every color in order to, um, to have the right inventory. So so that was something, you know, that's very different than financial modeling of a company. But the approach was the same. It was a communication tool. It was built using cleanliness in a way that could deliver the right message to the people who needed it. And that was a fun tool.
[00:40:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Fun. I love that one. That's a fun one. We get we get some great ones we've had. Uh, what.
[00:40:41] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Else have you had that was interesting.
[00:40:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: We had someone that had built a bathroom tracker. Somebody had linked it to a TV show where it counted how many times it was using swear words, because I said the show had more swear words than they'd ever heard, and they wanted to find out how many were there. So they built an API and tracked it. Another one to build a connection to a concert they wanted to go to, to keep track of the flow and calculate how long they needed to stay on the phone. They did get tickets with someone who built, uh, a marriage dashboard to report on, uh, before they got married, like what their goals were and how well they were aligned. And. Yeah, all this. And I asked him, I go, how well did that work? Like, we're not using it anymore. My wife didn't see it the same way I did.
[00:41:26] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Yeah. It's funny. Excel resonates with people in different ways. So mine was called the Letter Tracker. Um, it got used really? Really for a long time. As long as they ran the business. But yes, some people have a bit of a visceral, as you probably know, a visceral negative reaction to using spreadsheets to manage certain, you know, elements of their lives that they feel maybe should be more intimate. I mean, it's just a tool, but at the end of the day, I love creativity. I love your question because what it demonstrates is Excel is just a piece of white paper, right? It's just a piece of paper, um, that can manage and give you insights into words, numbers. You can do whatever you want with it. Um, there are people out there in the world that use Excel to create art, because you can. And it's just a nice whiteboard that has a lot of power behind it. Um, and I do encourage your listeners to be super creative. Uh, it's a great way to learn Excel skills and elevate your skills and your design and principles around clarity by just messing around and playing with it. Doing that will help you in more professional uses when you need it of Excel.
[00:42:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Very true. A lot of times the things you do for fun, you'll learn things you wouldn't learn in the professional and then you're like, oh wait, this applies exactly. So we're going to do, uh, what I call a shortened rapid fire. Yeah. You've answered most of these questions already. So if somebody wants to know circular references, VBA, all that they can go back and listen to episode one. But there are four questions I want to ask that we've added.
[00:42:51] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Okay.
[00:42:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Last time you were on okay. You know the rules. Know it depends. I know you're going to want to say it for all of them. So your answer and then you can elaborate on 1 or 2. So the first one is do you believe you're at the point where we should build fully dynamic models with dynamic arrays?
[00:43:07] Guest: Ian Schnoor: No. Okay. And do you want clarity or.
[00:43:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Clarity at the end I'm going to run through all of them first. No good financial modelers learn Python in Excel.
[00:43:16] Guest: Ian Schnoor: I'll say, uh, no, not for financial modeling.
[00:43:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What about Power Query? No power BI.
[00:43:25] Guest: Ian Schnoor: I'll go. No, just to. Just to stoke it up. And then I.
[00:43:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Will go for nose. Now, you can elaborate however you want on those.
[00:43:32] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Sure. Those are all great skills. They're all. So again this should be super clear and not trying to be cheeky. I am not suggesting people shouldn't learn those skills. Sure. But you were talking in the context of financial modeling. And when you and I talk about modeling, we're talking about building forecasts. And if you're talking about building a forecast of a project or of a company, you know, one of the things that I stand for a lot because I know clients stand for it is simplicity, cleanliness. Python is phenomenal at managing massive amounts of raw data, and if you happen to need to manage large volumes of raw data and to visualize it, fantastic. You should. You should understand it. But I don't see the place yet for Python as a forecasting tool. Maybe they'll change, but I don't see that yet. Same with dynamic arrays. I love it. I love that there are certain people in our community pushing the envelope. They are the pioneers. Challenge with dynamic arrays and models right now, is that certain things are actually a lot more complex. They enable an inherent circular reference, like there will be circularity in a circular reference as a result of it. It's not quite. I don't think it's ready for prime time yet. I love that people are pushing the envelope and I think it will, but I feel like it's not there yet. Power BI again, power BI is a great add on if you want to visualize some data in power BI. Again, power BI, I think is still better for big data managing and organizing um, sales data for a million rows, attaching it to the model. I mean, I don't see a need for that yet. In the last one you talked about dynamic array Power Query.
[00:45:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Power query is the other one.
[00:45:06] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Yeah. Power query phenomenal tool to clean data. But again, you know, I'll end with this. There are really only two reasons that I've ever seen people use spreadsheets okay. Truly. One is to manage data, big data, big volumes of raw data. And I believe that all of those tools that you talked about, knowing how to use the tools in Excel and when is so important. I believe that the tools you just mentioned are optimal for managing big data. You want to manage data. Power BI is great for visualizing it. Power Python is fantastic for helping you pull the data, extract the data, organize the data, do a lot of things with it. Also visualize it power query to clean it and the dynamic array capability. Phenomenal capability to automate so many things right to to spill data you know incredible. But again each of these I think still has more of a place in the world of data as opposed to in building a forecast for a project or a company. That's my view.
[00:46:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Appreciate that. Thank you. And I can totally see where you're coming from. They're definitely more used in big data. Power query is the one I would probably that's the one I say yes on. But that's also.
[00:46:16] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Power. Which one?
[00:46:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Power query. My my view there is especially for the models I'm building. You have a ton of actual data you need to bring in. It's often from multiple systems and it's always messy.
[00:46:26] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Okay. And so power. So sure in a fair world you're talking about connecting. So you're talking about the connectivity piece between the actuals to help you get into the forecast piece.
[00:46:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Correct. Right. You got to update it every month. Typically if you're doing a budget or a rolling forecast and updating those actuals, Power Query is hugely helpful to get to all the different data sources. Oh, sorry.
[00:46:44] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Did you say Power Query or Python power query? Oh power.
[00:46:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Query.
[00:46:48] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Got it. Yeah. Okay I can, I can.
[00:46:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So that's kind of where I say yes is I think so many, especially if you're, you know, dealing in certain areas of modeling, you're dealing with so much messy data. It's really helpful to kind of be able to do that. I get what you're saying. It's more of a data thing than a modeling thing. Correct?
[00:47:05] Guest: Ian Schnoor: I would still say that you're right, that that's more of the cleanliness and getting like to me, the modeling still is the future looking portion, right? I mean, I know that that full modeling tool does include and base off the historicals. And so cleaning that historical data and organizing it and rolling it. Sure. I view that as sort of a. And yes, I could see a spot for that. That's not needed in all models, of course, in more project oriented models. But yes, if you're dealing with an FPA world and you're constantly pulling in. Yeah. Love that.
[00:47:33] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So yeah. So just have one more question for you and then we'll be done here. But super. If you could share one piece of advice to our audience, what's the number one piece of advice you share with people about being a better financial modeler? What's the advice you'd give?
[00:47:45] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Yeah. If you get to learn modeling, learn the technical piece really well so that you can get away from it. Right. The great success in life, I mean, listen, are there I just really believe that, as I said earlier, modeling is a means to an end. I mean, there are people that like to kind of lock themselves in a room and, you know, somewhere and just keep their heads in a spreadsheet all day long. And if that's what you like to do, great. But in terms of what I tell people all the time, modeling, I believe, is one of the world's great leadership development skills. You can elevate your career and become a tremendous leader through modeling, but not through the technical spreadsheet portion of it modeling. You know, as you know, and this is why I love it requires you to know how to think, how to interact with people, how to lead teams, how to ask questions. Asking questions is not always easy. How to push back on people. How to collect data. How to organize it. How to design your flow of your file, how to be able to communicate it and present it. To inspire confidence and help people lead decisions through a clean and a clear lens. That skill is going to elevate you throughout your career and an organization. So I'd say if you get the fundamental technical skills, but then recognize that that's going to be the slingshot to elevate you up. I think I would encourage people to focus a lot on that side of the equation.
[00:49:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great advice. I really like that. And you know, we'll put your link to the FMI . Will put your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. So if somebody wants to reach out, they can get Ahold of you and keep up the great work. I love what FMI is doing and look forward to doing this again in a couple of years.
[00:49:26] Guest: Ian Schnoor: Amazing. Thank you, Paul. It's always a thrill and a great honor to be here. I love what you're doing as well. So congrats to you and I look forward to being in touch soon. Thanks again for having me back.
[00:49:34] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, thanks for joining me and look forward to seeing you again soon. Thanks. In.
[00:49:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Financial Modeler's Corner was brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. This year, I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler certification and it made me a better financial modeler. What are you waiting for? Visit FMI at www.fminstitute.com/podcast and use Code Podcast to save 15% when you enroll in one of the accreditations today.