How Financial Modelers Rely on Memorability, Not Accuracy, to Get Ahead in Excel with Finance Bro

Written By Paul Barnhurst

In this episode of Financial Modeler's Corner, host Paul Barnhurst invites "Your Average Finance Bro," for a light-hearted and humorous conversation about financial modeling. The episode takes a comedic spin on the often serious world of finance, diving into the importance of Excel, the art of building memorable models, and even how Excel proficiency can play a role in dating. Expect a mix of fun and insight, with Finance Bro offering his unconventional wisdom about financial modeling, presenting with confidence, and making your work stand out in the finance world.

Your Average Finance Bro, is a renowned figure in the financial modeling world. He has built a reputation not just for his financial modeling skills but also for his humorous take on the profession. He's a self-proclaimed founder of Goldman Sachs, inventor of the discounted cash flow model, and someone who has been involved in some of the most memorable (and fictional) moments in finance history. Finance Bro brings a fun and unconventional approach to the world of finance, often blending humor with expert insights.


Expect to Learn

  • The importance of memorability in financial modeling and how it can impact your career.

  • Why Excel continues to dominate financial modeling and how Finance Bro contributed to its popularity.

  • The lighter side of financial modeling, including hilarious pranks and Excel jokes.

  • How to present financial models with confidence, even if the numbers are questionable.

  • The essential skills and mindset needed for financial modelers to stand out, especially in high-pressure situations.


Here are a few quotes from the episode:

  • "Memorability is extremely important in financial modeling. If you screw up, people will remember that forever." - Your Average Finance Bro

  • "The ability to present a model is more important than the model itself." - Your Average Finance Bro

  • "If you can't teach someone how to build a model, you’re not teaching them anything at all." - Your Average Finance Bro


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In today’s episode:

[02:57] - Guest's Background

[04:33] - Becoming a Strong Financial Modeler
[06:27] - Defining Financial Modeling

[09:20] - What to Do When Your Model Breaks

[14:14] - Why Excel Dominates Over Google Sheets

[17:46] - Circular References vs. Leg Day

[19:28] - Favorite Code Words

[24:40] - Favorite Industry to Model

[26:07] - Rapid Fire Section

[28:38] - Favorite Lookup Function

[29:51] - Closing Thoughts



Full Show Transcript

[00:01:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Before we get into this week's episode, I just want to let you know this episode is fictional. Your average finance bro is a comedian, and the whole idea was to have a little bit of fun. So as you listen to the episode, hopefully you get a few laughs out of it. It's something totally new. We're trying. If you enjoyed it, you want me to do a few more things like this from time to time? Let me know if you thought it was terrible. Let me know as well. But I just wanted a level set so you don't listen to the first answer and be like, what in the world is going on when he tells you he was the founder and CEO of Goldman Sachs? This was all about having fun. So remember, have fun with modeling, have fun with Excel and have a few laughs during this episode. Thank you. Welcome to Financial Modeler's Corner. I am your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka the FP&A Guy, and this is a podcast where we talk all about the art and science of financial modeling with distinguished financial modelers from around the globe. The Financial Modeler's Corner podcast is brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. FMI offers the most respected accreditations in financial modeling. That's why I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler last year, and I signed up for the Chartered Financial Modeler this year. I am thrilled this week, really excited for our guest. This is a special guest that everybody can relate to because we've all been average at one time or another. So we're going to welcome on the show your average finance bro. Welcome to the show.


[00:02:54] Guest: Finance Bro : Thank you. It's great to be here.


[00:02:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Really excited to have you. So here is the background for our average finance professional. He is the founder and CEO of Goldman Sachs. How long have you been with Goldman now?


[00:03:05] Guest: Finance Bro : I can't even count how many years it's been. It's been a long time.


[00:03:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Chairman of the New York Stock Exchange and inventor of the discounted cash flow model. He is commonly referred to as the Michael Jordan of Finance. Why not LeBron James?


[00:03:22] Guest: Finance Bro : So I mean, I got the nickname. You know, way back when finance was just getting big and LeBron was kind of newer. So that's why I just stuck with it.


[00:03:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it I see. In his free time, he volunteers at for profit companies who are having cash flow issues in order to make sure that their shareholders are well taken care of. This year marks his 10th year in a row receiving the Wall Street Journal's Shareholder Value Maximizer of the year award. Did I cover it all? Anything else I should have included in that bio?


[00:03:52] Guest: Finance Bro : I mean, we could go on for hours, but I think that's a good enough summary.


[00:03:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Great. Well, you know, let's jump into the questions. I think we'll have some fun, unique answers here. So tell me first before we jump into the questions. I get a bed sheet that says freaking the sheets.


[00:04:10] Guest: Finance Bro : Oh, this is you know, it's my regular bed that I've had it for since I was a kid. So a long time. And yeah, honestly, I don't know why more people don't have it, because I think it adds a really nice decor and a really nice vibe to the room.


[00:04:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I'll, I'll go check with my wife and see if she likes the idea.


[00:04:28] Guest: Finance Bro : I'm sure she will.


[00:04:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I bet all the framed pictures she'll be huge on. So. How have you become known as such a strong financial modeler? I mean, you're known throughout the industry.


[00:04:38] Guest: Finance Bro : So there could be, you know, there's a million different answers to this question, but I'd say it all comes down really to two things. So there's practice and memorability. So, you know, let's start with practice. I've been financial modeling since I was in school. Right. So even if someone you know is doing slightly better, You know, this is slightly better than just how much time I've had. How much more time I've had over them will just make me a better financial modeler than they are. Like, I think you can agree that, you know, the more time you put into it, the better you'll be.


[00:05:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it? I've heard your models are pretty memorable. A lot of people remember them. Why is that?


[00:05:16] Guest: Finance Bro : Yeah. So I mean, memorability, honestly, I'd say it's even more important than practice. So people remember my financial models because they're in the news all the time. Because I inflate the numbers to help improve the stock price. So now when people think of me, they're like, oh, I remember that financial model. I remember Enron's financial model. I remember right. So it's very memorable. And, you know, just to highlight how important memorability is, I always tell, you know, when interns and when students come and ask me for advice, I always like to say, if you're an intern, if you do well during the summer, they'll remember you for a few months, maybe a year. But if you shit your pants during the summer, they're going to remember you and talk about you forever. So memorability is extremely important.


[00:06:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So what has been your most memorable thing you've done where you've just looked like a fool?


[00:06:07] Guest: Finance Bro : I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about that on this show.


[00:06:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So you're pleading the fifth is what I hear.


[00:06:13] Guest: Finance Bro : That's exactly what I'm doing.


[00:06:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Oh, man, that's no fun.


[00:06:17] Guest: Finance Bro : Yeah, yeah.


[00:06:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, well, we'll let you go on that one. I will press you too hard. You know, a question we ask all of our guests. I want to get your opinion. How would you define financial modeling if I asked you to define what qualifies as a financial model? How would you answer that?


[00:06:35] Guest: Finance Bro : I think this is a pretty easy answer. Financial modeling the definition. It's a form of seduction. There's really nothing more attractive than someone who can build a good DCF. I'm pretty sure that's actually how cavemen and cavewoman used to mate back in the day. That uses a mating technique like, I know some birds have, you know, fancy noises and calls, or they show their feathers, you know. Financial models are what people use, right? And regarding, you know, what qualifies as a financial model. People think it's all about finance. They put too much emphasis on the financial part of the financial model. But in reality, it has nothing to do with finance. It's all about looks and vibes. Right. If you pull up a spreadsheet and I'm like, wow, that's that looks complicated and impressive. It's a good financial model. It doesn't even matter. You know what it's about or what's on it. Because if people don't understand it, they can't judge it. They just use the looks and the vibes. So, you know, there's nothing specific to qualify a financial model. It's just about how it makes you feel.


[00:07:41] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Interesting. You know, I've this week alone, you've brought up a form of seduction. I had a guest who brought up the James Bond philosophy to explain budgeting. Are you familiar with the James Bond philosophy?


[00:07:55] Guest: Finance Bro : I'm not, I'm not.


[00:07:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: This was around budgeting and planning. But he said, basically, you have to know when it's time to metaphorically shoot somebody and when it's metaphorically time to seduce somebody.


[00:08:06] Guest: Finance Bro : Yeah. I mean, from my end, I, you know, I'm, I'm just in the seduction business. Really?


[00:08:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So you don't shoot anyone.


[00:08:13] Guest: Finance Bro : I don't, I don't.


[00:08:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's good. Yeah. Tell us about the worst model you've ever built. I mean, I know you've inflated a lot of stock prices, but tell us that horror story I'm sure you have to have.


[00:08:23] Guest: Finance Bro : So, I mean, I don't know if it's. It's the worst or the or, honestly, it could have been the best. It's definitely the most unique. I once built the model that analyzes how many models I've built. So how many sales have I used, how many spreadsheets I've made, how many workbooks I've used, etc.? Total cash flow. Um, you know, I was actually even thinking about building a model that analyzed that model, which analyzed all the models I built. And, I don't know, I could go on with that chain forever. I don't know how many I should stop at.


[00:08:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. So the first question is how many external workbook links? Or did you use Power Query to connect all those models?


[00:09:01] Guest: Finance Bro : External links. External links. And there were a lot. Honestly, I couldn't even give you a number because it's not. It's too long to memorize.


[00:09:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Wow. That's pretty impressive. You know, you might have to share that model with us someday so we can all analyze it.


[00:09:16] Guest: Finance Bro : Yeah. Yeah, 100%.


[00:09:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, well, keep that in mind. All right, so I would love to know. What do you do? What's your move? When you got a meeting with the client and the model breaks. Right. We've all been there. You've stayed up all night. You're getting ready to put it on the printer, and all of a sudden you realize the balance sheet doesn't balance. Or something else. What do you do?


[00:09:39] Guest: Finance Bro : Right. Okay. Well, first of all, before I answer that question, my models don't break my models. They're rock solid, right? But most people have been there, right? What I would do if I was in that situation, which I would never be in. Just make up the numbers. No one. No one knows. You know what's true and what is it? Finance is really just a game of convincing people that they should believe you more than they shouldn't believe you, right? You think? You think Warren Buffett knows what he's doing? No. He's just one of the lucky people who just isn't wrong that often. No one knows, you know, is the stock going to go up or down or all the way to the side? You just talk confidently and you'll be fine.


[00:10:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I'm curious, before you founded Goldman Sachs, did you work at Enron by chance?


[00:10:22] Guest: Finance Bro : Ah, yes. Yes, I can't, I can't, I can't talk about the details of what I did there, but I did work there. All right.


[00:10:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's just kind of wondering. I thought that might be the case. What's the worst meeting you've been in? Not the model you've built, but the worst meeting you've been in where somebody, uh, was totally. You could tell just by making it up. They know that model is broken. What's the worst one you've seen or the best? I mean, have you seen some where you're like, wow, you guys are not very good at lying.


[00:10:49] Guest: Finance Bro : Yeah, yeah. I mean, so honestly, I think the worst one I've been in. The numbers were fine, but the intern presenting it, he seemed like he had no clue what he was talking about. And you know, I looked at the numbers after and he knew exactly what he was talking about, but he just didn't seem like he knew what he was talking about. Right. What he was talking about. And I went out, I went up to a doctor and I said, I don't believe a word that you're saying. You want to know what he said to me. He said, check the numbers. You'll see that they're right. And I said, I don't care, right? Because I don't believe you. You're just not talking persuasively. So that was probably the worst. The worst one I've ever seen.


[00:11:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I had nothing to do with the model. Just he couldn't present the model.


[00:11:27] Guest: Finance Bro : And I can't say this enough. The model almost doesn't matter. It's all about how you present it.


[00:11:33] Host: Paul Barnhurst: How do you become great at presenting then? Is it all you need to play a lot of poker? What should you do?


[00:11:38] Guest: Finance Bro : I mean, yeah, so I mean, practice memorability. The two things that we spoke about at the beginning and on top of that, you know, just distractions, right? You know, the more you distract people from the crux of the matter. Right. Which are the numbers? Right. You know, the less likely they are to look into it. Right. If you have, you know, some fancy funny posters and bedsheets and signs and mugs in the background. Right. People are going to be so focused on that. They're not going to pay any attention to the numbers. Right. So it doesn't matter. You could put the most made up number in there, but they're not even going to look. They won't even know it's there.


[00:12:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I'm curious if you have a go to joke. You like to use.


[00:12:15] Guest: Finance Bro : Go for a joke? I don't know. I mean, I kind of just go off the vibes. Um, I think the good thing I like about my bedroom setup here is that the joke writes itself, right? I don't even need to make the joke. The joke is already there.


[00:12:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Fair enough. I can think of a few to make. All right, so you have ten minutes to clean a messy model before your vice president sees it. After you've cleaned yourself up because you are nervous. What's your strategy?


[00:12:46] Guest: Finance Bro : Hands down. Blame it on the intern. Right. And here's the thing. It's a win-win situation. Right. People think, oh, you're blaming the intern? The poor intern is getting in trouble. No. The intern will never get in trouble. Everyone loves interns, right? The CEO will meet with the intern on the first day. The CEO will never talk to an associate. Right? So just blame everything on the intern because the intern will never get in trouble. In fact, odds are the CEO will go up to where the VP will go up to him and say, hey, you know, let's sit down and let's go through this. Right? It's a learning experience for the intern. The intern will not get in any trouble. And if you blame it on the intern, then you won't get in trouble either. So everyone wins.


[00:13:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: While my background is in FP&A. I am also passionate about financial modeling. Like many financial Modelers, I was self-taught. Then I discovered the Financial Modeling Institute, the organization that offers the advanced financial modeling program. I am a proud holder of the AFM. Preparing for the AFM exam made me a better modeler. If you want to improve your modeling skills, I recommend the AFM program. Podcast listeners. Save 15% on the AFM program. Just use Code Podcast.



[00:14:04] Guest: Finance Bro : Everyone wins. Uh, I like it. The intern wins. You win. We'll go with it.


[00:14:11] Guest: Finance Bro : Exactly.


[00:14:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm curious. Why do you think so many people use Excel? Why is it number one? Why not Google Sheets? I mean, why don't you have, like, Google Sheets all over your bedroom?


[00:14:20] Guest: Finance Bro : People use Excel because I told them to write. And I think it's one of those long lost stories. People forget that I was the person who made Excel popular. You know, I said everyone should start using Excel, and then a few people started using it and more people started using it, and now it's snowballed so big that people forget that I was, you know, the original person behind, you know, this this trend, if you will. Um, this trend that's lasted longer than any other trend has ever lasted.


[00:14:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Is that kind of because just the average finance pro doesn't know how to use Excel?


[00:14:51] Guest: Finance Bro : No, no. Definitely not. Okay. Um, it's just because, you know, there's people who are known for certain things, like, you know, Isaac Newton, known for finding, inventing, whatever it is. He discovered gravity. Right. In the same way I'm, you know, the one who made Excel popular. People just kind of forget that it was me.


[00:15:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, it's kind of like I'm the king of podcasts. But sometimes people think it's Joe Rogan.


[00:15:16] Guest: Finance Bro : Exactly. You totally understand it.


[00:15:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I can feel your pain. I mean, sometimes me and Oprah Winfrey get confused, but not very often. It's.


[00:15:25] Guest: Finance Bro : And honestly, you know, when you're walking down the street and people like Jamie Dimon, you know, David Solomon, can I have your autograph? You're like, no, no, no, it's just me. Like, and you can sell my autograph, but just don't confuse us.


[00:15:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I, I hate when that happens. I hate when they compete. Like I said, they confuse me with Oprah. That's the worst.


[00:15:43] Guest: Finance Bro : Yeah. Yeah.


[00:15:45] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, so there's a lot of rumors floating out there on the internet, and I just want to clear this up. Is it really true you once went on a first date and talked about nothing but the girl?


[00:15:59] Guest: Finance Bro : No it's not. It's not true that I do it all the time. I think it's not only an appropriate first date topic, but it's probably the best first date topic. Right. Think about it. It's. It's fun. It's intellectual. It's not controversial. Or usually it's not usually controversial. Right. I mean, I once had a bit of a fight with someone, but I will get into the details of that. But, yeah, I mean, I guess. Yeah, it's true. I do it all the time.


[00:16:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What's been your best experience talking Excel all the time?


[00:16:30] Guest: Finance Bro : Yeah. I mean, one time I was talking about it and she said, well, I have my computer right here if you want to start making some spreadsheets. And I was like, on the first date, that's, that's a little, uh, provocative. But yeah, we ended up, you know, spending a solid few hours together, the spreadsheets. And it was really cool.


[00:16:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I bet you built quite the DCF.


[00:16:53] Guest: Finance Bro : Yes, yes we did.


[00:16:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right.


[00:16:56] Guest: Finance Bro : In fact, actually.


[00:16:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I.


[00:16:57] Guest: Finance Bro : On top of that, I'm pretty surprised that dating apps still haven't added a feature where you can filter by Excel proficiency. Right. There's you know, you have age, you know, height, relationship type whatnot. If they're really trying to get people to pay for premium subscriptions, which is how they make most of their money, they really need to make this feature available as soon as possible.


[00:17:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Now I'm curious, did you teach each other any new shortcuts?


[00:17:26] Guest: Finance Bro : Look, I mean, I don't want to. I don't want to talk too much about what we did and didn't do. I don't think it's necessarily appropriate to share. But yeah, I will say, you know, a few shortcuts were taught.


[00:17:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, good. I'm glad you taught her. I hope you taught control Z.


[00:17:39] Guest: Finance Bro : Everything.


[00:17:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All at. I don't know. I'm sure we could think of a few others.


[00:17:43] Guest: Finance Bro : That we could think of a whole bunch. Yeah.


[00:17:45] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. I'm curious for you. What is more painful? Circular references or leg day?


[00:17:54] Guest: Finance Bro : I don't know, I don't really, I don't really do. Leg day I kind of just I'm just at, you know, at the monitors. I have my six monitors right here. Um, building the spreadsheets. I actually know there's another, you know, popular, um, modeler called Fit Finance, bro. And his whole thing is he builds spreadsheets and goes to the gym. So that would be a good question to ask him, but personally, I couldn't even tell you.


[00:18:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, maybe we can get both of you on and you two can debate a few things that might.


[00:18:21] Guest: Finance Bro : Be we probably. Yeah, we should definitely do that.


[00:18:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. We'll definitely look to do that. So I'm curious, have you ever made a model so complicated that even you couldn't understand it the next day.


[00:18:36] Guest: Finance Bro : That's a good one. I don't think I have, but you know, I think there was one time, you know, I do a lot of, uh, so when companies are showing, you know, their financial models and reports and statements. You know, they're showing you what you want, what they want you to see. Right. Where I come in for companies is I do a lot of the work that they don't want you to see. So that the stuff that can't go to the public. Right. And sometimes companies want to be extra careful. So I'll use, you know, code words or, you know, like, um. Yeah, code words and stuff that only I know. So if it does get out, you know, people can't even understand it. I think one time I actually forgot what my code words were, which made it a little bit complicated. But, you know, with a little bit of work and putting everything together, I was able to figure it out.


[00:19:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Interesting code words. Do you have a favorite code word you can share with us?


[00:19:31] Guest: Finance Bro : I'll usually just use food. Uh, gummy bear, pretzel yogurt. Keep it simple.


[00:19:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: How about Taco Tuesday?


[00:19:39] Guest: Finance Bro : I don't see why not.


[00:19:41] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I like that one. That's one of my favorites.


[00:19:43] Guest: Finance Bro : I'll definitely throw that in next time, but I can't tell you what. What it will be a code word for.


[00:19:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's fine. What can you do? Yeah. All right. So I got your opinion on this. This is one that shows up on LinkedIn all the time. So what's your opinion on someone like, say, a golden Jordan gold buyer? You know, a Microsoft MVP who uses merge cells. Are they chaotic evil or just really misunderstood?


[00:20:09] Guest: Finance Bro : I think it's totally chaotic. And honestly, it's something that we shouldn't even allow in society, right? Like, you know, we have politicians out there and they're fighting over this and they're fighting over that. I think we really need to focus on this right now. This is an issue. You know, it's prevailing. It's and honestly, I've had enough of it. I'm kind of sick of it at this point.


[00:20:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So how would you.


[00:20:31] Guest: Finance Bro : Solve.


[00:20:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It? What's your solution to getting rid of merge cells? It's a complicated problem. Or it would have been solved 40 years ago, right?


[00:20:38] Guest: Finance Bro : I think it really goes back to education. There's not enough Excel education for kids in kindergarten and school and grade one and grade agreed to if we start educating them from a younger age, and this won't be a problem in the future.


[00:20:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Ah, okay. So we should start at basically from elementary school, kindergarten, all all those when they're young, even nursery.


[00:21:00] Guest: Finance Bro : Right. Right out of the womb.


[00:21:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Preschool. Out of the. Wow. Why not in the womb? Why not play music? Why don't we just play tricks?


[00:21:07] Guest: Finance Bro : I don't see why not. Here's a quick rant. Right? People are always talking about, you know, signs that finance is obviously more important than science. Right. Who needs doctors when you have investment bankers? But I will say, the one thing scientists and doctors could be good for is if they invented a reverse ultrasound instead of.


[00:21:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Us.


[00:21:26] Guest: Finance Bro : Seeing what the baby is doing inside, it's the opposite. Then we can even start educating the babies on spreadsheets from while they're in the womb. And then, you know, it's been a trend, you know, over the past few years that recruiting for finance roles has just gotten earlier and earlier and earlier and earlier. And if we could start doing, if we could start educating the babies while they're still in the womb, then we can start recruiting while they're still in the womb. And it would just be better for everybody.


[00:21:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Bad financial models can lead to bad decisions or worse. So, how do you minimize the risk of a bad model? You make sure the models you build are great. The Financial Modeling Institute developed the Advanced Financial Modeler accreditation program to help modelers like you. The AFM program offers a step-by-step approach to building world-class financial models. The program ensures that you know the best practices in model design and structure, and will help you brush up on your Excel and accounting skills to be the one on your team to build great models. If you want to impress your boss and your clients, get AFM accredited. Podcast listeners. Save 15% on the AFM program. Just use Code Podcast at www.FMInstitute.com/podcast.



[00:23:15] Guest: Finance Bro : Okay, so this goes all the way back to what I said. The beginning practice of memorability. But a tip here's a tip I have for the memorability front. Whenever you're, you know, walking around town, you're going to a bar or you're going to a baseball game, a networking event, whatever it might be. Right. Wherever you're going. Wear a t- shirt that says, I want to work in financial modeling. That way, if anyone around you is ever hiring for a role and they see you in the t-shirt, they can offer you the job. And before then, they may have not even known you existed, right? So just putting yourself out there by doing such an easy thing that I'm surprised more people don't do.


[00:23:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So don't wear just the freak in the sheet shirt. Go beyond.


[00:23:53] Guest: Finance Bro : Here's the thing from my perspective, that works even better, because now, not only do I know that you want the job, but I know that you're good at the job, right? So that's that. But if you're going to wear it, make sure you can put your money where your mouth is.


[00:24:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. I do have one of those upstairs. I almost wore it for this, uh, this interview.


[00:24:11] Guest: Finance Bro : Yeah. Well, if you ever need a job, make sure you put it on and walk around.


[00:24:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I got my get sheet done shirt. Got my freaking sheet. See? What else do I have? Same sheet, different day. Great. So I got them covered.


[00:24:25] Guest: Finance Bro : That's good to hear. That's really good too.


[00:24:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Hear my Excel shirts.


[00:24:28] Guest: Finance Bro : So you know what you're doing. That's what we need to be telling new grads.


[00:24:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I rarely ever wear the one that says Excel Hero. It's too, too pretentious. I prefer the other one's a little softer.


[00:24:38] Guest: Finance Bro : Fair enough.


[00:24:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What's your favorite industry to model? If you could model any industry, which one would you do?


[00:24:44] Guest: Finance Bro : If I could model an industry? It would be the modeling industry, right? Because here's modeling models. It's like, let me take these models, see which are the best. I'm going to go and model those. Right. So that's really cool. But I'll tell you my least favorite industry to model is fashion. Right. And I'll tell you why there's a story behind this. So, uh, Victoria's Secret, you know, Victoria's Secret?


[00:25:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. She's a good friend of mine.


[00:25:09] Guest: Finance Bro : Yeah. So she was researching me, and she asked me to do some modeling for them, and I said, great. Whatever. I mean, right. So I brought my computer. I brought my spreadsheets. I brought my six monitors to start working. And then they asked me to take off my clothes and put on some really small underwear. And when I told them I wouldn't do it, they fired me on the spot. And I vowed on that day, I vowed to never model for the fashion industry again.


[00:25:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And you haven't broken it since.


[00:25:38] Guest: Finance Bro : Have it? I have it. It's honestly, it's just unacceptable when I'm just trying to do my work and you're telling me what I should or shouldn't be wearing, the only thing that I will wear is the Patagonia vest or my freaking the sheets suit. You will never catch me wearing anything else.


[00:25:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. All right. I like it. Patagonia or freaking the sheets. Are you a sponsor of Patagonia?


[00:26:01] Guest: Finance Bro : Unfortunately not. Unfortunately not.


[00:26:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, maybe we can make that happen. We'll see.


[00:26:05] Guest: Finance Bro : Hopefully one day.


[00:26:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, so we're going to move into rapid fire. We have a few questions for you. Here's how this works. It's rapid fire because we're looking for quick answers. Okay. Ready? Yep. Circular references in your model.


[00:26:21] Guest: Finance Bro : Triangular references.


[00:26:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Vba in your models.


[00:26:25] Guest: Finance Bro : Yes or no? I'm indifferent, but VBA is great for pranking interns on their first day of work.


[00:26:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And how should you prank them? Let's dig into that.


[00:26:32] Guest: Finance Bro : So my favorite prank is using VBA. You can make it so that every time they try to open Excel, it opens word instead. And. And the funniest part is even the fact that it happens. The funniest is you could wait to see how long it takes to ask for help, and you and your coworkers can bet on it. It's true.


[00:26:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. I'll have to try that one. Do you prefer horizontal or vertical models?


[00:26:55] Guest: Finance Bro : Either is good, but I will say whatever you do, horizontal or vertical. Send it to your boss upside down, and you and your coworkers can bet on how long it will take them to call tech support.


[00:27:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What's the record? For the longest time it's taken to call tech support.


[00:27:10] Guest: Finance Bro : I think a couple of days, a couple of days.


[00:27:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: They were slow.


[00:27:13] Guest: Finance Bro : I lost a lot of money on that one.


[00:27:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, you're rich, so it doesn't matter. I mean, after all, you're an average bro and a finance bro at that. Yeah. So will excel ever die?


[00:27:25] Guest: Finance Bro : Absolutely not. I like to say if there's two people alive, it's me and Excel. If there's one person alive, it's Excel. And if there's zero people alive, then you forgot to count. Excel.


[00:27:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. So Excel is like roaches. They just don't die.


[00:27:39] Guest: Finance Bro : Exactly.


[00:27:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: They'll survive.


[00:27:40] Guest: Finance Bro : But good roaches.


[00:27:42] Host: Paul Barnhurst: The nuclear holocaust.


[00:27:43] Guest: Finance Bro : Good road, good roaches.


[00:27:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Will I build the models for us in the future? Some.


[00:27:49] Guest: Finance Bro : But at the end of the day, no. I will ever be able to build a model. Better than I can.


[00:27:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So, in other words, they're not as good at lying and inflating numbers as you are.


[00:27:57] Guest: Finance Bro : Exactly. If you ask. Have you asked an AI model today to. To build you a financial model, but make up all the numbers so you could trick your shareholders and trick your lenders and investors. It would say it won't do it. I would never say that to you.


[00:28:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it? I'm curious. Do you believe financial models are the number one corporate decision making tool?


[00:28:22] Guest: Finance Bro : They're number two. But vibes will always be number one. Right. You could give someone a financial model and it could look horrible. But you know, they might just be like, oh, I don't know. I think it could work. Right. So vibes vibes will always be number one.


[00:28:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. And what is your lookup function of choice? lookup.


[00:28:42] Guest: Finance Bro : And back to the question you asked about talking Excel. Talking about Excel on a first date. I always like to say, if you can't look up, we're not going to look up.


[00:28:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. All right. And then I'd like to know. Tell me your favorite Excel joke.


[00:28:59] Guest: Finance Bro : My favorite Excel joke. Oh, there's so many.


[00:29:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, you can give me more than one if you want. Top three.


[00:29:07] Guest: Finance Bro : I think you know this one. But you know what's the most dangerous cell on a spreadsheet?


[00:29:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: C4? Yes, yes. What about AK 47?


[00:29:16] Guest: Finance Bro : That's also a good one. But I don't know. I think C4 is a bit more dangerous.


[00:29:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I'll give you one if you know this one. What cell should you store your Excel error messages in? I don't know.


[00:29:30] Guest: Finance Bro : Never heard this.


[00:29:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: One. Column F you wrote.


[00:29:34] Guest: Finance Bro : I like it, I like it.


[00:29:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, you got another one for me.


[00:29:38] Guest: Finance Bro : Not off the top of my head, but I'm going to have to send you a list.


[00:29:41] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, you send us a list. We'll put it in our show notes so everybody can learn. They're there. Excel jokes.


[00:29:47] Guest: Finance Bro : Perfect.


[00:29:49] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. As we wrap up here. If somebody wants to learn more about you, how do they go and see all the impressive things you've accomplished in your amazing life?


[00:30:01] Guest: Finance Bro : Best thing is to go to my Instagram account at your average finance bro. Or if you look up finance bro, it should come up. You'll see all the stuff there. I talk a lot about Excel, Excel on the first date, modeling, finance and all that kind of stuff. Um, or come out to a conference, uh, where I'm, I'm doing some comedy about finance and excel.


[00:30:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. And there's a wrap up. We'd like to ask you to give one last tip. So for all those people who are going on a first date, give them a tip of how they should talk about Excel. What's something they should do?


[00:30:33] Guest: Finance Bro : The best thing to do is to be humble, but at the same time convey that you're able to use Excel without a mouse because I can't think of anything more attractive.


[00:30:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. So you find keyboards attractive?


[00:30:47] Guest: Finance Bro : Well, I mean, if you put it that way.


[00:30:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us. It was a real pleasure having you on the show, and I can't wait to hear what our audience has to say.


[00:31:00] Guest: Finance Bro : Awesome. It was great to be here.


[00:31:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Financial Modeler's Corner was brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. This year, I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler certification and it made me a better financial modeler. What are you waiting for? Visit FMI at www.FMInstitute.com/podcast and use Code Podcast to save 15% when you enroll in one of the accreditations today.

Paul Barnhurst
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